NWN2 allows us to scale everything in such a way that servers could make their own 3d travel-map, in lieu of the overland map.
Discuss.
Travel: Final Fantasy vs. Baldur's Gate
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Stormseeker
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I have to admit i like the way it is handled in nwn2. Especially since module size plays into our hands.
Here dm's have the chance to throw in random encounters that can constantly change. The little window pops up and says you have encountered something..low and behold it is not a ambush but a man saying his kid has been kidnapped, player or players can choose to help, those who do travel to the area the rest go to their destination.
Dm could have some sort of way seeing if someone has done this side quest since he has loaded the mod...and if so turn it off or take it out of the mod.
Ideally would be a team that makes these temp mods and rotates them among alfa servers, constantly changing and reusing them. Could even be tied in with static quest, that are constantly being changed.
Here dm's have the chance to throw in random encounters that can constantly change. The little window pops up and says you have encountered something..low and behold it is not a ambush but a man saying his kid has been kidnapped, player or players can choose to help, those who do travel to the area the rest go to their destination.
Dm could have some sort of way seeing if someone has done this side quest since he has loaded the mod...and if so turn it off or take it out of the mod.
Ideally would be a team that makes these temp mods and rotates them among alfa servers, constantly changing and reusing them. Could even be tied in with static quest, that are constantly being changed.
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What I think Ronan is alluding to is the possibility of having a single 32x32 area, with everythign scaled WAY tiny, say a single building the size of a small table would represent a town. So one could actually walk along from one site to the next, setting off possible triggers along the way or whatnot.
Personally if we must go to some manner of map travel system, i'd prefer just a static map like is used in OE's campaign. While it's cool to think outside the box, and I don't really have a problem with the other style, I just prefer the feel of the static map.
Personally if we must go to some manner of map travel system, i'd prefer just a static map like is used in OE's campaign. While it's cool to think outside the box, and I don't really have a problem with the other style, I just prefer the feel of the static map.
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The problem with OE's system is that its harder for DMs to work with. You click, and a script fires. Unless we script something allowing the DMs to "intercept" certain parties before they travel, its hard for DMs to have any control over the process. The FF map puts a lot more tools in our hands, using things like triggers and scripts normally only reserved for the game. It takes a bit of scripting to make work as well, but some things are a LOT easier with a FF-style map. Placing triggers down to represent terrain types and creature populations for random encounters, for example.
It was primarily attractive to me because it would allow for exploration, which isn't really possible with the default map.
I just don't know how to do a good travel system. We can't make it take time, because that would limit RP. You can RP in the FF-style map, but nothing outside of conversation really.
Overall it might just be something we let individual servers decide on their own. It might not be something that needs to be included in the ACR.
Rumple, PCs would be scaled down as well, so it would look like a large bird's-eye view of your party, with less detailed terrain.
It was primarily attractive to me because it would allow for exploration, which isn't really possible with the default map.
I just don't know how to do a good travel system. We can't make it take time, because that would limit RP. You can RP in the FF-style map, but nothing outside of conversation really.
Overall it might just be something we let individual servers decide on their own. It might not be something that needs to be included in the ACR.
Rumple, PCs would be scaled down as well, so it would look like a large bird's-eye view of your party, with less detailed terrain.
ah!
that sounds better. Those maps would end up being jampacked full of placeables though. Load times would be acceptable? Would movement be scaled down as well? I assume static areas attached to the "world map" would be marked in some way so its not a case of combing the whole thing looking for undiscovered at's?
Im liking the idea now.
that sounds better. Those maps would end up being jampacked full of placeables though. Load times would be acceptable? Would movement be scaled down as well? I assume static areas attached to the "world map" would be marked in some way so its not a case of combing the whole thing looking for undiscovered at's?
Im liking the idea now.
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AcadiusLost
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I like the idea of the FF-style scaled map a lot... use of periodic "random encounters" (including many noncombat or "false alarm" ones) could help travel time work out more IC, and give DMs more opportunity to work their magic on travelling PCs. Triggers with associated scripts could give PCs chances to find hidden areas (monster lairs, ruins, etc), as well as choose travel routes based on terrain and such (ex: let's skirt around spiderhaunt woods, or take Tilver's gap instead of Shadow gap). Random encounters could also take into account whether you're on road, grassland, forest, mountain, tundra, desert, etc.
One sticking point in my mind (besides the appreciable amount of work involved) is how to deal with parties, travelling together. Is there a way to keep them moving close to one another? Designate one PC to be the "guide"? What I don't want to see is the "scout" tripping random encounters and being whisked away to a random encounter while the rest of the party is left on the overmap, travelling on. Ditto for the mage who clicks a bit too far from the rest of the party. Even things like having a proper scout along, would have to be considered in setup of the "encounter" areas- maybe allowing high survival / stealth / spot/listen PCs to jump into an encounter area with greater distance from the encounter group, or allowing an option to try to bypass based on contested skill checks or something.
I must say, all this sounds far preferable to the one-click instatravel.
[edit] I'm also visualizing short perception ranges, and scripts to jump to encounter areas if multiple "parties" of PCs get close to each other, allowing folks to "meet on the road" sans DM and such- the roving encounters could even be represented by random-wandering placeholder creatures which wouldn't be noticed unless/until they came into near perception range, at which point they would trigger a jump to an encounter map. All really cool stuff IMHO.
Would this mean if a DM jumped you out of a "world map" area, you'd show up miniturized?
[/edit]
One sticking point in my mind (besides the appreciable amount of work involved) is how to deal with parties, travelling together. Is there a way to keep them moving close to one another? Designate one PC to be the "guide"? What I don't want to see is the "scout" tripping random encounters and being whisked away to a random encounter while the rest of the party is left on the overmap, travelling on. Ditto for the mage who clicks a bit too far from the rest of the party. Even things like having a proper scout along, would have to be considered in setup of the "encounter" areas- maybe allowing high survival / stealth / spot/listen PCs to jump into an encounter area with greater distance from the encounter group, or allowing an option to try to bypass based on contested skill checks or something.
I must say, all this sounds far preferable to the one-click instatravel.
[edit] I'm also visualizing short perception ranges, and scripts to jump to encounter areas if multiple "parties" of PCs get close to each other, allowing folks to "meet on the road" sans DM and such- the roving encounters could even be represented by random-wandering placeholder creatures which wouldn't be noticed unless/until they came into near perception range, at which point they would trigger a jump to an encounter map. All really cool stuff IMHO.
Would this mean if a DM jumped you out of a "world map" area, you'd show up miniturized?
[/edit]I like the idea of the 3d travel map..
it definitely appeals to me more to have a dynamic travel map rather than a static one. The other good thing is you could still keep your element of mystery...
Wouldnt a static travel map have points of interest already marked on it like "Big Scary Beholder Lair"?
With a dynamic 3d travel map it gives players the opportunity to
* Explore areas they havent been to before that they didnt know existed
* Have "fog" to black out unexplored/unmapped areas (which I think will be especially great for new PCs... Complete mystery outside their start town 4tw!)
* Utilise working trail maps (which would allow certain sites/roads to be viewable, but not necessarily all until the player comes across them)
* Be DM railroaded while enroute somewhere hence furthering plot arcs, etc.
* Get Lost (using insidious "get lost" scripts which even now my fevered brain is conceptualising)
and thats just the beginning.. if we could find a way to allow players with the right skills and writing equipment to have their "maps" saved on an item for them and allow transfer of these PC maps to other players, thatd be pretty cool.. no idea how or if it could be done however.
it definitely appeals to me more to have a dynamic travel map rather than a static one. The other good thing is you could still keep your element of mystery...
Wouldnt a static travel map have points of interest already marked on it like "Big Scary Beholder Lair"?
With a dynamic 3d travel map it gives players the opportunity to
* Explore areas they havent been to before that they didnt know existed
* Have "fog" to black out unexplored/unmapped areas (which I think will be especially great for new PCs... Complete mystery outside their start town 4tw!)
* Utilise working trail maps (which would allow certain sites/roads to be viewable, but not necessarily all until the player comes across them)
* Be DM railroaded while enroute somewhere hence furthering plot arcs, etc.
* Get Lost (using insidious "get lost" scripts which even now my fevered brain is conceptualising)
and thats just the beginning.. if we could find a way to allow players with the right skills and writing equipment to have their "maps" saved on an item for them and allow transfer of these PC maps to other players, thatd be pretty cool.. no idea how or if it could be done however.
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[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
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ç i p h é r
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I just can't stop laughing at this.
An interesting alternative to a get lost script (or complement) is to make the characters viewable radius on the overland map dependent on his Knowledge(geogrophy) and/or Survival skills. I like the idea of an overland map of the server rather than have a server gridded up over say 25x20 odd areas like we are doing currently.
Last edited by Joos on Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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White Warlock
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Would it then be possible to have a "between servers map" of all of Faerun. So if someone for instance was to portal between WD to TFN then they could actually see the trip on the Fearun map and could be stopped randomly along the way.
Would be nice to have the trip indicated on the map with the chance of random encounters, instead of just magically appearing 700 miles away from the last portal. But I take it that such an idea would take up an entire server?
Would be nice to have the trip indicated on the map with the chance of random encounters, instead of just magically appearing 700 miles away from the last portal. But I take it that such an idea would take up an entire server?
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