Comprehend Languages (new spell)

[AcadiusLost]

How would we like this to work for the NWN2 servers? I believe it's meant to apply to one touched target, either an NPC/PC/creature or a book/scroll/carving, and allow comprehension of whatever tongue is is speaking in / written in.

Should we make the spell target-able, and just translate things said in all languages by that target for the caster (but not dialog from others speaking the same language within earshot of the caster?) Or grant the caster comprehension of all the languages the target can speak/understand? The latter seems a bit meta (touch target X, suddenly understand abyssal spoken by nearby Demon Y while X continues speaking only in Chondathan, etc). Could try to just offer translation of the first language spoken by the target of the spell...

Also, should the spell be imparting knowlege of which language is being spoken? (Draconic: "I see you can understand me now.") vs. (Comp. Lang: "I see you can understand me now.")

Interested in thoughts on this before I get into the coding side of things.

[Riotnrrd]

How would we like this to work for the NWN2 servers? I believe it's meant to apply to one touched target, either an NPC/PC/creature or a book/scroll/carving, and allow comprehension of whatever tongue is is speaking in / written in.

Should we make the spell target-able, and just translate things said in all languages by that target for the caster (but not dialog from others speaking the same language within earshot of the caster?) Or grant the caster comprehension of all the languages the target can speak/understand? The latter seems a bit meta (touch target X, suddenly understand abyssal spoken by nearby Demon Y while X continues speaking only in Chondathan, etc). Could try to just offer translation of the first language spoken by the target of the spell...

Also, should the spell be imparting knowlege of which language is being spoken? (Draconic: "I see you can understand me now.") vs. (Comp. Lang: "I see you can understand me now.")

Interested in thoughts on this before I get into the coding side of things.

Per canon the caster can understand any language spoken by a single touched target or read any language for a touched written language, but cannot also speak or write it.

Recommend targeted touch spell, non-hostile. Maybe echo a plaintext translation of anything spoken by the target in any language NOT understood by the caster?

for each phrase spoken by target
- if phrase.language is not caster.known_language echo translation to caster

Also note, this will need to be considered for the spell Tongues as well.

[bartleby]

Comprehend Languages
Divination
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level

You can understand the spoken words of creatures or read otherwise incomprehensible written messages. In either case, you must touch the creature or the writing. The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning. The spell enables you to understand or read an unknown language, not speak or write it.

Written material can be read at the rate of one page (250 words) per minute. Magical writing cannot be read, though the spell reveals that it is magical. This spell can be foiled by certain warding magic (such as the secret page and illusory script spells). It does not decipher codes or reveal messages concealed in otherwise normal text.

Comprehend languages can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Arcane Material Component
A pinch of soot and a few grains of salt.

Honestly it seems to me like you should only get to understand the language via the spell ... doesnt seem to say anything about imparting knowledge of what language is being spoken just a one way pocket translator for the object or person youve touched ... what sucks even more from a codeing perspecitve is that it dosnt look like you nessicarily should get to be able to understand another creature speaking the same language with out touching it ... it might just be better to ignore that though it would be a huge pain to try to code that ... *(edit) Riotnrrd has a darn good idea nm *

I think that i put a master translation variable into the book scripts that while based off of the DMFI language vars isnt directly connected so that it would be easier to allow some one to be able to read txt and not understand the spoken words .. and as the books work on the fly if the var is turned off after a certain period of time the txt should go back to being unintelegable if the PC turns a page.

so that might make reading much easier ... Ill see if i can look into that a bit more ...

[AcadiusLost]

I've got pretty good ways of implementing this via DMFI scripts, since I've had some familiarity with the translation part. It wouldn't be hard to make it work for any of these arrangements. The real questions are:

1. Should the caster be imparted knowledge of what language(s) it is that he/she is comprehending by way of the spell? Sounds like probably not.

2. Should the caster be imparted comprehension of any and all languages spoken by the target during the course of the spell duration? Ex, if the target, a tiefling Calishite merchant, starts off speaking Alzhedo, realizes the caster can understand him, then switches to Infernal to disguise his meaning, should that be translated for the caster as well? (if 1 is no, the caster would likely be unaware the language being used had changed). If this is a no, we will probably have to try to lock on to the first (non-common) language used by the target (technically more challenging than the alternative).

3. Should the caster be able to understand the same language being spoken by others within earshot as well, during the duration of the spell? Ex: A wizard casts Comprehend Languages and targets his moon elven ranger ally, in order to understand an argument between the ranger and a group of angry sun elves. Easily doable, but also affected by choices on the first two questions. This would certainly make the spell more useful/powerful, but may or may not be in line with the general intention of the spell.

Another reading of the pasted description suggests that it is the Language that is being comprehended; so you should understand it when others speak it as well I think. We could kludge it so that any language actually spoken by the target during the duration gets added to the list that translates for the caster, and languages the target chooses not to use stay unavailable/untranslated.

Opinions, alternative interpretations?

[Riotnrrd]

1. Should the caster be imparted knowledge of what language(s) it is that he/she is comprehending by way of the spell? Sounds like probably not.

agree, should not necessarily know which particular language is being spoken... but probably wouldnt hurt to give this info (maybe with a lore / knowledge (languages) roll?)

2. Should the caster be imparted comprehension of any and all languages spoken by the target during the course of the spell duration?

Yes. I read this spell to say that if I touch you, I understand any language you speak for the entire duration, regardless of whether or not you change languages.

3. Should the caster be able to understand the same language being spoken by others within earshot as well, during the duration of the spell?

No. I understand this to say you only understand languages by the touched target creature or writing.

In summary, understand any language the target speaks, but the target only.

[AcadiusLost]

The spell is called Comprehend Languages though, not Comprehend Creature. My feeling is that it's supposed to impart understanding of any particular language(s), given that the caster has a "subject" to use as a focus for them. As I've said, we can code it either way technically, but it has a major effect on the usefulness of the spell.

Case 1: Translates elven only when spoken by the target; can be used to understand a single PC or NPC who cannot communicate in common.

Case 2: Translates elven spoken from all sources when cast on a target speaking elven; can be used to follow entire conversations, spy, or just save your polyglot ally from having to manually "translate" what is being said by others in a mixed group in which the caster does not know the language.

Big difference in utility. I favor the second as a more flexible and interesting interpretation, I certainly think the spell would get more use via case 2; both by casters and as charge-based or x/day magic items. We could look to a few others to weigh in opinions, then put it to Ayergo for a DMA call potentially.

[AcadiusLost]

The additional opinions I have solicited have all favored the more limited reading of the spell's use (translates the language(s) only when spoken by the touched creaure); so I'll code it that way.