On the favored Souls admin debate

[darrenhfx]

What Misty said.

I'll ask all the DMs for input on the proposal, take into account the backstory provided by the proposer, the number of current Favoured Souls on the server (reasonable #'s), whether or not you've been nice to Paaz, random variable X, and a decision will be made.

That's if this thing goes through.

[Dorn]

Can i just say how refreshing it is to have this conversation about how to have good RP limitations on FS's rather than solely a discussion about numbers/balance.

Goodie.

[Inaubryn]

I find myself chiming in on the forums here more and more. I think this makes three post for me in a week. Dammit, I've gone insane. Ah well.

Let me say this. When I was a little girl. I asked my mother... sorry. When I was a DM here, for long time, I knew two things. Players made characters to play, and those characters had a background and goals that were to shape that character. I didn't care if you played a svirfneblin monk, a drow barbarian, a duergar paladin, or a half-orc wizard. You had a story that you wanted to tell through your PC and I, through the story I wanted to tell, helped you tell your story through your PC.

PMing the HDM or whoever for permission to play a favored soul on their server shouldn't be necessary. It's a character with a story. You can choose to DM and try and weave that character into the greater story or not. It's that simple. Me, personally, I loved the concepts and stories that the players thought up and was willing to help them do and try anything to accomplish their aims. Never once did I tell a player, "no you can't do that," as it pertained to the story. But, I was just really open like that and I realize not all DMs are me.

But, if for some odd reason, you as a DM don't feel that favored soul PC can fit in your dungeon crawl, which makes no sense to me, then hey, feel free to not get them involved. If, for whatever weird logic you come up with you can't DM that Earth Genasi Warlock on that quest to find the [insert item here] hidden in the [insert NPC/Creature]'s lair, then hey, that's you.

But, just realize... this is all about telling stories and being creative. A PC is a PC, is PC, is a PC. They're all just characters in a story. A DM is a storyteller and should endeavor to tell the best story with the best characters, the end.

[MShady]

This is a cleric that works like a sorceror. Do sorcerors require "extraordinary" circumstances? No.

This comes to flavor text for pete's sake. Tweaking the flavor text ever so slightly and just treating them like divine sorcerors works. Wouldn't that be the easier solution? Anyone? Bueller?

This idea that Favored Souls are mini-Chosen is ridiculous.

They're not. They are alot like Paladins; they experience a calling to serve their God and indeed might have received a blessing from their God.

A Favored Soul might deal with this willingly or unwillingly. Okay. But its a very similar blessing. I'd deal with it like you would deal with a Paladin.

So what do you do with Favored Souls who fall? Treat them like fallen clerics or paladins.

It can be that simple if we let it.

There is some concern about play balance with the Favored Soul. So they might be a bit more combat oriented than a cleric. Okay, they're not clerics though. They are more like sorcerors using divine spells.

If they have marginally more spells, well... most of their spells are far less offensive. They may get a free weapon focus and specialization, but that is not really a huge deal. Or the damage resistance.

Why? The lack of flexability. Your average level Favored Soul in ALFA will really only know enough spells to either A) Offensive B) Defensive/Buff C) Heal. An equivalent level cleric can swing 2 of those and switch around.

Their primary stat is charisma, which has few other applications. While they have good base stats, they're not maxing wisdom like a cleric so in practice their actual save is not terribly different. They need the two extra feats in their progression again due to the flexability issue. Other feats receive bonus feats. If you think improved evasion is less of a feat than weapon specialization, I have some swamp land for you..

IIRC, they are also flexible in terms of skills.

In a PW where you don't know what you're going to get, this is all a really big deal. We're not an MMO where combat power is the sole consideration for a class. Favored Souls lose a lot in terms of flexability.

It balances out to a point I'd be hesitant to play one except for the RP possabilities.

3E or 3.5E, splat book or no, nothing beats a pure class cleric. Favored Soul does not change that. They're just shiny.

Mike

[Vendrin]

Yes we should have standards for dealing with if they fall or turn away from their god, no we shouldn't need HDM permission on it to play one.

And I for one like the idea of mini chosen. Your born a favored soul, not made one on a whim by a god. And that presents lots of interesting opportunities.

[MShady]

A God granting you special divine powers is a, in the scope of things, a rather unique thing in the grand scheme of things. Just like sorcs are more rare than wizards, the same for a divine soul.

I worry that we will try to limit the number of people playing them. What if you want to but we're all booked up? Do we hold a lottery or something? Bah.

I won't deny the cool RP possabilities, but it does not need to be that big a deal. Its another base class.

[Swift]

So we finally get a yes, and people still complain =x

[Zelknolf]

I find myself chiming in on the forums here more and more. I think this makes three post for me in a week. Dammit, I've gone insane. Ah well.

Let me say this. When I was a little girl. I asked my mother... sorry. When I was a DM here, for long time, I knew two things. Players made characters to play, and those characters had a background and goals that were to shape that character. I didn't care if you played a svirfneblin monk, a drow barbarian, a duergar paladin, or a half-orc wizard. You had a story that you wanted to tell through your PC and I, through the story I wanted to tell, helped you tell your story through your PC.

PMing the HDM or whoever for permission to play a favored soul on their server shouldn't be necessary. It's a character with a story. You can choose to DM and try and weave that character into the greater story or not. It's that simple. Me, personally, I loved the concepts and stories that the players thought up and was willing to help them do and try anything to accomplish their aims. Never once did I tell a player, "no you can't do that," as it pertained to the story. But, I was just really open like that and I realize not all DMs are me.

But, if for some odd reason, you as a DM don't feel that favored soul PC can fit in your dungeon crawl, which makes no sense to me, then hey, feel free to not get them involved. If, for whatever weird logic you come up with that you can't DM that Earth Genasi Warlock on that quest to find the [insert item] here hidden in the [insert NPC/Creature]'s lair, then hey, that's you.

But, just realize... this is all about telling stories and being creative. A PC is a PC, is PC, is a PC. They're all just characters in a story. A DM is a storyteller and should endeavor to tell the best story with the best characters, the end.

I'm gonna come to your servers and play Azoun VI!


C'mon -- it's just common courtesy to chat up the DMs if a background involves canon NPCs; if nothing else, ALFA's canon needs to be poked enough to tell if the ideas are possible and/or reasonable. The fact that the canon NPCs are deities sure makes it sound less tangible and easier to handwave, but they're still big important NPCs, who are pointing at a PC and declaring (without said PC's efforts to make it so) "That guy shall be awesome in my name!" (something I see as distinct from clerics, who actively pursue a deity, and said deity could easily shrug and passively accept, toss a few orisons the sucker's way and see what happens.)

That said, I don't forsee a flood of favored soul hopefuls, or any mass rejections of favored soul concepts.

[ElCadaver]

A God granting you special divine powers is a, in the scope of things, a rather unique thing in the grand scheme of things. Just like sorcs are more rare than wizards, the same for a divine soul.

I worry that we will try to limit the number of people playing them. What if you want to but we're all booked up? Do we hold a lottery or something? Bah.

I won't deny the cool RP possabilities, but it does not need to be that big a deal. Its another base class.

+1

[Mitch]

Let me start my throw of the dice- I mean two cents- by saying I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to play a Favored Soul, or Warlock for that matter but my concern for their inclusion is based on something else altogether.

We all joined ALFA as role players looking for a hard core role playing community. Many did this by submitting detailed character bios and many others, like myself by playing on the OAS.

There was a bar set that just by being able to join the community we are, as a group, competent to role play the races and classes of our choosing.

For me personally, as a player, I've never played with a better and more immersive group of role players.

I think at some point we all have to trust that the players who choose to play a class are adequately and sufficiently able to role play it. I think the minute that breaks down then the very thing the community as a whole was founded on breaks down with it.

[Dorn]

Bravo.
Best post i've seen in ages.

[Kest]

Bards are Arcane casters... but on your point:

I mentioned Bards not because of arcane magic - how is that even relevant? - but for how difficult it can be to roleplay one convincingly - in fact, I'd say Bards are the most difficult to play well. Not everyone has a musical bent. With Paladins the difficulty lies in the strict codes they follow; this can extend to clerics, druids and monks. Yet we don't require special permissions to use these classes - the player is trusted with the responsibility.

Those classes all work proactively and spend years becoming those things. they work hard to prove themselves worthy of the divine attention that they receive.

Favored Souls just get it. Tymora likes you, POOF! You're a Favored Soul.

Second, even moreso than rare races like plane-touched, Favored Souls are even rarer.

Some deities may not even HAVE Favored Souls. Others have up to a handful, in all the realms, at any given time.

It's gonna be a stretch on my immersion if we have two Favored Souls of Helm in one place.

Meanwhile, anyone can strive for and become a paladin/cleric/druid. Just gotta have the right mindset.

See here:

This idea that Favored Souls are mini-Chosen is ridiculous.

Such claims diminish the importance of other divine classes.

I don't believe Favored Souls are rarer than planetouched. What a curious outlook to have for this class! They are nothing more than a divine champion or favored priest, perhaps an aasimar gifted with the faith since his birth, maybe even a random peasant chosen on a whim. What happened to allowing the player his own background? And why the assumption that PC would flock to this class once it does become available?

So, yes, there are RP considerations that apply to Favored Soul that just do't apply to the others. Whether that warrants special circumstances is your personal opinion I suppose, but saying that they aren't any different is not supported by the facts.

Finally: you screen people with applications and rules, request they become familiar with the setting. They then interact with other players, DMs, and said setting on an often daily basis. Is this not enough to determine whether a person can roleplay properly?

[Swift]

Is this not enough to determine whether a person can roleplay properly?

Anyone who has been around awhile can tell you there have been some absolutely horrid RPers make it into ALFA.

[Kest]

...how long do they last before receiving help/restrictions/punishment?

Will probably regret the answer to this, though that shouldn't be the case.

[Burt]

I'm pretty sure if there had been a Favoured Soul poll that Ronan would have lost it.