Player shortage

[Xerxes]

Ok let's see if I get crucified for this but here goes. I think we all can say that the amount of active players isn't what it used to be. And I don't really see it changing if we don't do something about it soon. As things are going now in MY opinion and from what I know, ALFA is slowly dying due to a lack of players. More Live servers won't solve this problem, probably only make it worse, spreading out our already thin player base.

I have had many friends that I have brainwashed with how great alfa is that were all excited about starting to play. They are great RPers and would have fit ALFA perfectly. But after hanging around on the OAS to no avail and other issues with getting started with alfa they gave up.

Had they just got into the game I know they would have been hooked, but they never got that far. Now some people that know exactly how to do all these things or know who to poke on the alfa chat to get attention on the OAS, might say "well it's not that hard, just read through forums, web pages and get it done, do this, do that". Well most normal people outside of alfa can't be bothered to put in all that work for something they have yet to see how good it is. For a person who has no clue about anything on how to get started with alfa to get from start to finish, it can be a bit tricky. I believe we lose allot of good potential players that could help kick start things by having a hard "first mile".

I have a suggestion. Why not have a recommendation system. IF a player in ALFA (of at least one year) gives a recommendation, he can bring in a friend. No app, no OAS, nothing. This person gets to go straight into alfa. But the person who recommends someone is responsible for him/her and if that person misbehaves it will reflect on the one who recommended him/her. IE. he can no longer take in any friends, the idiot he took in gets kicked out.

I see that the advantages to this outweighs the disadvantages to this.
Thoughs?

[Fredricus]

I seem to remember us having this system, or at least a similar one, earlier. Can't see any reason for it not to be implemented if we haven't already.

[Nalo Jade]

Could be a lack of DMs as well.

If we had an influx of players without lots of captivating static content they will likely leave as well, out of boredom.

I don't see what it would hurt to try your idea out, heck some of the players may want to convert to DMing...

biggest issue though imo, you touched on, was 1st impressions, we only get one chance to make a good first impression...we need a way to make sure when a player logs in the very first time they are given a taste of the best pie we have to offer.

[White Warlock]

Sometimes "peer pressure" interferes with judgment. I can no doubt see people being recommended merely to maintain friendships.

Regardless, the problems are not in accepting/denying members, as much as it is making it easy for them to get setup and ingame. The tools on the website are nice, fine and dandy, but it takes much effort "even for me" to be able to locate information. There's still some duplicity and there is no single source, easy to locate, information to obtain what a person needs to get started.

Other problems are:

* insufficient DM coverage. Staff attention is primarily focused on content creation, and not player interaction.

* reset-dependent spawns, leaving people with nothing to do when all the spawns have been wiped out and no DM is ingame, leaving players to tavern roleplay, which is nothing more than in-character chat.

* no rhyme or reason. No point in developing a character or participating in various activities. Characters do not gain fame / notoriety points, nor do they obtain noticeable influences, even with dm interaction.

The amount of players is really not the problem. I notice a good amount of players ingame when resets happen or when a DM is running a session. Otherwise, yes... it becomes a ghost town.

[dergon darkhelm]

I've thought a lot about this approach, having had a good friend and lifelong PnPer given a re-mo on his application and never coming back to ALFA.

I'll admit that I've now done a full flip-flop on my position. I used to think that such an approach wasn't worth it because it would (possibly) drop the quality of play and (possibly) lead to a lot of issues requiring the PA to get involved.

I still think the potential for those troubles exist. I just think that the need for growing the player base outweighs the risks.

[Regas]

Props to the DMs (Wayne and Wynna) that are working hard to breath life into Silvy, we really appreciate your hard work. The building and scripts for the server are fantastic as well, and rival anything that I've seen in the vault. I have to agree with NJ though, the main issue is lack of DM coverage. I've spent hours on the server and have had two very brief interactions with severely overtaxed DMs. In all my time in ALFA, I've never seen such an absents of DMing. In a community where farming is frowned on there is little else other then tavern rp, which while fun to a point gets old eventually. Why are so few choosing to DM in ALFA? Is there anything we can do to address this?

--Regas

[Rotku]

As far as I know, there's always been a sort of recommendation system. Well, at least there was back when I was Head of Admissions. It might have been removed in FIs addmissions rework, but if you hunt around, I'm sure the details are still floating.

[FanaticusIncendi]

Why are so few choosing to DM in ALFA? Is there anything we can do to address this?

--Regas

Lots of reasons people aren't stepping up for that. One of which is possibly the perception that you have to jump through lots of hoops, which IMO aren't that onerous. I think the fear of the hoops far outweighs the actual difficulty of them. It's not rocket science,

There's also the split platform issue. I DM at least once a week in NWN1, often twice and sometimes thrice. However I do not have an iota of interest in learning the NWN2 DM client.

Then there's my personal soapbox issue, the inability to trust our DMs to play on the same server they DM on. Seriously people, if I wanted to meta or cheat I could have done so a million ways by now. DMing on the same server I play on isn't suddenly going to make me a cheater. We're either trusted, or we're not. Why are there levels of trust? As an admin I had access to every forum in ALFA (including server forums I play on). Clearly I was trusted not to abuse the information in those forums. Are admin then, more trustworthy than DMs? I think not. Allow people to play where they DM and you'll see more DM love. More DM love = more player interest.

[Nalo Jade]

I agree with FI that you will see more DM coverage.

Though if a few years ago I had been asked "Should DM's be allowed to play on the server they DM on?" I would have said no.

There will always be cheating and favoritism, which are the biggest potential liabilities to allowing DMs to play... potential being the key word. Vendrin has said it as well, don't "punish" everyone for that can't be trusted.

Give people enough rope to hang themselves and then string em up for all to see if they violate the trust they were given...

From what I am seeing in the DM/Admin forums Ayergo is working hard to get some things squared away regarding DM training, hopefully we will have a more streamlined system for becoming a DM and passing standards training.

I think PR (edit to include who I mean by PR ... Demson and Paazin and the artist formerly known as Danubus and now the current Senor T) are/were working hard to recruit more members at this upcoming NWCon will be a great test as to how well or poorly we can come across to another part of the greater NWN Community. If you want to see more members which could end up being more DMs, Builders, Scripters, Custom content, Server hosts ect... Do something to help out the PR team or just be on the OAS this weekend.

Many of the HDMs have shown a positive voice for adding more static content, again Ayergo is working on getting the "guidelines" for that stuff in line.

Zicada is getting us a new super server data node box thingy, this should speed up stuff...and look better? Not sure but from the sounds of it...it will be super cool.

An applicant should be including in their application that they have been referred by so and so ... and though I agree we need to clean up the exploded spaghetti (Zicada is working on that) I would think that the "sponsor" would be able to help the recommended through the process or at least put them in touch with someone who can... so though I don't see anything wrong with adding a recommended auto accept feature...I don't think that feature would have a huge impact in the membership base.

[LancasterX_2]

Well, to re-interate my DMA platform, in which contrary to the flamers some people actually voted for, you need to remove the barriers for DM's.

No DM App for DM's, and create a pool of qualified DM's. Once you have a pool, then work on mentoring.

I know some great members who are so pissed off with ALFA, all of whom DM'ed on various servers, that you need to blast away some of the "Holier than thow" restrictions to get back into letting them DM and add a LOT of trust back. Then they might come back.

Also, let them DM when they want, whether it be monthly, weekly, or daily. Let them be relaxed and DM when it is fun for them. More DM's = session times.

And, ABOVE ALL let them PLAY as well as DM!

As for the servers, I say keep the ones listed, let the builders have their fun and keep their dreams, but make it easier to have more DMs!

TSM has enough statics and areas to explore, but it needs DM's.


And finally, let's just do away with the DM App for new DM's all together and instead build a mentoring apprenticeship program. Anyone who wants to DM just PM the DMA with a brief outline of why you want to DM, and if he/she is a member in good standing, ask to have a regular DM mentor a new DM. No PADM's/ADM's, just DM's and the DMA with an HDM who doesn't have to worry about recruiting and policing DM's, that will be the DMA's responsibility. The paper work has to go.


If this goes through, and I can play my guy on TSM, I'll volunteer to DM

[Thangorn]

To present an alternative viewpoint:

My DM App was accepted in less than 12 hours flat last night (Thanks ayergo, topnotch work). There was a good core of 8 players on last night at the time I have applied to DM. In fact there is always at least 3-5 players on when I am on and my timezone is probably the least friendly in all ALFA.

I am quitting playing to step up and DM on TSM and will continue building for Moonsea.

YMMV

[NickD]

I've said this before... I played on a server where one of the DMs also played. My character and his character had... problems. After that I felt pretty uncomfortable about him being a DM. Prior to that I would have agreed with FI, but now I support the continued restrictions on playing on servers they DM on.

I've also brought up (a couple of times) in the past Thrasy's "Open up the servers for a week" suggestion from when he was LA or PA or DMA or whatever he was. I think it would have been better to do this for the first month of live, but we're not really at a point where it would destroy ALFA. Just make sure people are aware of the roleplaying standards. But that's never going to happen.

[Zelknolf]

And finally, let's just do away with the DM App for new DM's all together and instead build a mentoring apprenticeship program. Anyone who wants to DM just PM the DMA with a brief outline of why you want to DM, and if he/she is a member in good standing, ask to have a regular DM mentor a new DM. No PADM's/ADM's, just DM's and the DMA with an HDM who doesn't have to worry about recruiting and policing DM's, that will be the DMA's responsibility. The paper work has to go.

There really isn't a whole lot of "paper work" unless the application is coming out of the clear blue sky, (i.e. if you've talked to the HDM of the server you'd like to DM on and he/she has said "sure!", there really isn't much more to do beyond reading and agreeing to the code of conduct, and I'd hope you'd be on board with the code of conduct; even though it's not followed exactly all the time, the ideals are at least nice.) If the app is out of the clear blue, well, those are questions an HDM would ask anyway, and they all amount to "Okay, let's say I give you the keys to the server. Whaddya wanna do?" If you can't answer that informally, you can't really work on a team; prolly best to shoo ya away before ya aggrivate the rest of the team.

Seriously people, if I wanted to meta or cheat I could have done so a million ways by now.

+1

Especially on the meta count. srsly; think about how much meta info there is out there. I understand the "ignorance is the best way to prevent meta info from being used!" argument, but c'mon! We're supposed to be an RP-centric community; if we can't distinguish between IC and OOC info, we're prolly playing the wrong game.





And on the actual topic of the thread, I'd support that on the condition that the reccomended players be mentored by the reccomending players. Prolly happen anyway, but I'd want to write it down. Ya bring 'em in and they play with you, 'least until they get a feel for the world and the people here.

[Zelknolf]

I've said this before... I played on a server where one of the DMs also played. My character and his character had... problems. After that I felt pretty uncomfortable about him being a DM. Prior to that I would have agreed with FI, but now I support the continued restrictions on playing on servers they DM on.

tbh, we have issues with people being uncomfortable with DMs over the suspicion of/presence of/appearance of personal bias and its potential to affect judgment all the time. I generally respond to that discomfort by telling the DM and the HDM of the server that I'd rather not be DMed by that DM. Happened a few times now, and I haven't been told "no" yet.

Simple enough concept: "We won't have fun together; let's not play together."

[Gebb]

I think it would be fine to admit people with the recommendation of a current member. This community tends to crucify people who don't live up to standards, so it's a self correcting system. More players = better play.