danielmn wrote:Diablos advocatos: Counterarguement, If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
A. Proposal needs substantive data supporting that a voting change is necessarry or wanted for the community (suggest getting with Veilan on the election/voting of active/inactive members over the last year as well as the effect inactive members had on those elections, perhaps wait a week before doing so as he is engaged in other serious matters atm).
B. Proposal needs substantive data supporting administration change when deemed necessarry (suggests research into how often we've had admin just disappear off the map, and what was done about that, and how that process can be changed for the better)
C. Proposal needs substantive data supporting ineffectual staff/staff not present. (suggests research into how often staff members from any dept have gone extended lengths away from the community, and if that has had any impact on the quality of the staffs work as a whole)
My gut wanted to quote Castano and +1 is, but my brain wins and quotes Dan.
I agree with daniel as well. Are there numbers to support the theory non-participating members are deciding the elections with their votes? It was recently said in chat that there have been 80-something unique GSIDs active over the past couple months, yet I see only 50-something votes in the most recent election. Im afraid I just dont see where the concern arises.
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Pull data from last election and see if Viagra selling bots caused Regas to win. Unholy alliance with Pfizer. Getting a crate of the blue stuff in exchange for data of middle aged gamers who may need a little help leveling up their hench junk.
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack
Brokenbone wrote:Pull data from last election and see if Viagra selling bots caused Regas to win. Unholy alliance with Pfizer. Getting a crate of the blue stuff in exchange for data of middle aged gamers who may need a little help leveling up their hench junk.
zomg, I cant believe I get to use this again so soon, but I love it so.
seriously, volunteers are volunteers. Recal is there is there to sort out someone who disappears (me inculded).
Given this game isnt even available in most of the world anymore, how the flying fuck do you think enforcing tenures and servitude on people is going to help matters. I mean really, can't we just get on with playing D&D. That in itself is tragic enough without this kind of kindergarten bull shit.
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If we had a more-plausibly-defined electorate, we could more reasonably make conclusions about things-- measure voter participation, be certain when a simple majority of voters is reached (potentially ending laughable second rounds like we saw last election before they happen: charter does say that elections end immediately if a candidate gets a simple majority of possible votes, after all-- and such a consideration would give us a plausible number for the maximum number of castable votes) and hopefully see things generally along faster. Less time running elections, when we can salvage it, is more time getting stuff done.
Anger at the rationales prior notwithstanding; I like getting stuff done.
Zelknolf wrote:If we had a more-plausibly-defined electorate, we could more reasonably make conclusions about things-- measure voter participation, be certain when a simple majority of voters is reached (potentially ending laughable second rounds like we saw last election before they happen: charter does say that elections end immediately if a candidate gets a simple majority of possible votes, after all-- and such a consideration would give us a plausible number for the maximum number of castable votes) and hopefully see things generally along faster. Less time running elections, when we can salvage it, is more time getting stuff done.
Anger at the rationales prior notwithstanding; I like getting stuff done.
Conclusion discludes the fact that the previous PA was active up until the last hour of the second round, getting stuff done. Therefore perchance some of the arguement here is invalid.
Swift wrote:
Permadeath is only permadeath when the PCs wallet is empty.
Zyrus Meynolt: [Party] For the record, if this somehow blows up in our faces and I die, I want a raise
<Castano>: danielnm - can you blame them?
<danielmn>: Yes,
<danielmn>: Easily.
"And in this twilight....our choices seal our fate"
Is there the possibility that longstanding contributors who no longer play, but work on the tech side may be sidelined due to this ammendment? (if they don't have a role actually defined by a title). There is a lot of work that goes on that player only types do not know about, and it would be a shame to alienate tech types.
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You're All a Bunch of Damn Hippies
Castano wrote:I'd say if you are building things (forums, tech, servers) that should count as activity.
The OP is about people who literally are not present anymore, at least that's what I took out of it. It's a valid point in that respect.
Problem is Castano who is not active? O_o
What brings this problem up?
I'm hated so I will tell you. The smaller contingent of pro powergaming mindset players are upset that the candidate who's ear they had lost the PA election. They knew to complain to someone who apparently is sympathetic. There, that didn't take 4 paragraphs.
Castano wrote:I'd say if you are building things (forums, tech, servers) that should count as activity.
The OP is about people who literally are not present anymore, at least that's what I took out of it. It's a valid point in that respect.
Problem is Castano who is not active? O_o
What brings this problem up?
I'm hated so I will tell you. The smaller contingent of pro powergaming mindset players are upset that the candidate who's ear they had lost the PA election. They knew to complain to someone who apparently is sympathetic. There, that didn't take 4 paragraphs.
Oh, this can only end well.
Thread lock for the good of the game (which really isn't anything like as broken as some might have you believe) in five, four, three...
I think the positive question to look at is: How does ALFA include and empower enthusiastic new members of the community?
Not how do we block influence by some old members.
I'm sure there's improvement to be had there, with history almost inevitably there comes the "old boys club" syndrome. Doubly so for a project that has shrinked in size. It seems to happen that "old boys" from the past "golden age" wander back in, and to the active new members seem to gain instant influence on the project. The "old boys" likely years ago earned their stripes among the majority of the community, but it's not unfair for the new player as a result to feel like their opinions and enthusiasm is just sneered upon, even though they're putting in a huge effort into the project right now, not years ago.
But the answer is not somehow to try to block or dilute participation of "old boys". At least the cliche is that with old age comes inertia, but also wisdom. Probably applies to projects and communities as well as individuals. The answer is to be more inclusive to enthusiasm of new members. To take people in, and show them the project, inner workings included. That way reasonable people will understand how, and what is the limit to which, they can shape the project to their vision of it.
Last edited by t-ice on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
