Moving PCs -

[Castano]

because people keep using words like "enforce" and "discipline".

[Swift]

because people keep using words like "enforce" and "discipline".

Why have any rules if you don't enforce them?

But sure, let's just ditch all the rules since they seem to be preventing fun. Anything goes huh? Why not, let's see how that works out for us.

[Castano]

thank you Swift - you just made my point.

[Swift]

thank you Swift - you just made my point.

Considering my point was clearly "We have rules and they should be enforced" I am not sure how I made your point which is...actually, I am not sure what your point is. You seem to be outraged over something that isn't actually happening so, more power to you I guess?

[Adanu]

Oh for fucks sake you two, it was a goddamn misunderstanding that was since talked about. Shit happens, and having a Vendetta about it when it was clearly handled does nothing but make you both look like immature jackasses now. I already knew Swift could be this bad, but there is absolutely no need for the mud slinging in this thread. Things change. Trying to act like this is the same place as it was a decade ago would be pretty goddamn naive now.

Stop this bullshit and get on with your lives, you're doing yourselves and our PA a disservice keeping this crap up.

[Swift]

It's not a true General Forum discussion if Adanu doesn't jump in to take unprovoked pot shots at me. When he has nothing to say but sniping at me, I consider that a sign the conversation was worth having, regardless of how distasteful some may have found it.

Something happened, nobody has been sanctioned and a clarification has been made by an Admin regarding a new policy that still has some teething issues. . That is a good thread, even with the misplaced outrage.

[Castano]

You seem to be saying the rule sucks because enforcement is difficult. I shall now list for you some of the rules DMs follow, including those requiring HDM permission, that are difficult to enforce:

1. 10,000 gp items - DMs must post to thread - only way to detect and enforce? - wealth reviews of individual PCs and/or acquire logs.
2. Changes to any file in a server module must be approved by HDM - only way to detect if the host or a DM with access made a change w/o permission: in game reporting of things/random detection
3. Releveling of PCs due to errors made by player during level up
4. Fixing bugs/PrCs by giving PCs items with feats etc. on them
5. Reporting players above level 10 to the level 10 thread
6. Creating a plot that conflicts/retcons another DM's plot
7. PDMs spawning creatures over CR3
8. PDMs awarding gp over the guideline for a PDM award
9. DMs approving extraordinary PCs w/o HDM approval - how do I know what tokens were handed out until possibly several levels later?
10. DMs approving PrCs w/o HDM approval

I could go on....

[Adanu]

It's not a true General Forum discussion if Adanu doesn't jump in to take unprovoked pot shots at me. When he has nothing to say but sniping at me, I consider that a sign the conversation was worth having, regardless of how distasteful some may have found it.

Something happened, nobody has been sanctioned and a clarification has been made by an Admin regarding a new policy that still has some teething issues. . That is a good thread, even with the misplaced outrage.

So I make an offhand comment about you in the middle of another statement, suddenly I'm doing nothing but sniping at you?

Get real.

[danielmn]

So, I haven't read to many forum threads in a while. I read this one, I laugh. You're all insane. I'll get back to my playing, dming, and toolsetting now. Carry on with your insanities!

[paazin]

FYI, as far as BG goes I really don't care if people visit before the 30 day limit. A 5-day limit would be fine with me.

[t-ice]

I found myself oddly entertained by this thread... Guess I should get my head checked, but I supposed that's just par for the course for DMing here.

I will of course DM by the rules, but I would appreciate having leeway to bring in "emergency PCs" if otherwise I have to abandon my event. Naturally I would overwhelmingly prefer to have local PCs - I hope to create a story that the PCs involved will want to talk about with other PCs even when I'm not in session, for one. Having a distant PC regularly server hop back and forth to join a storyline that unfolds half the world a way from that PC's home is simply stupid.

For now I will certainly avoid hopping, but let's see how that rules discussion turn out in the end. However, we should make a distinction between server hopping in general, and server hopping a event-suiting PC to a server where a not-suiting PC already is. I don't see that big a deal between the two, the story disruption comes from the hopping, the rest is trusting our players to honor "PCs are never allowed to influence each other". But apparently many people do think it's a big deal and that rules discussion needs to come to some conclusion.

So, please please help avoid more threads like this and DO COME PLAY WITH ME ON BG MONDAYS 6pm CET. I need the PCs there early to develop a suiting story. If you drop in once I'm already running, I will try to rope you in if you fit, but given ALFAs spread of levels on top of IC concerns, odds are not that high.

[Sidhe]

Point ALFA B game.

ALFA is not a spanning metropolis of 300 members with 30 servers where we need to wrap ourselves in laywer-riffic micro bureaucracies for every god damn element of the game. Dont you think its about time you realise we are a core group of about 30? regular gamers who dont need hall monitors handing out pass cards every time we need to go to the fun room.

Kudo's to people like Regas, Castano, T-Ice and Paazin for all your hard work and realistic attitudes to what is a hobby that should be about engaging and entertaining people - you know what D&D is all about! When I am finally worn down and converted by the creativity sapping, stone walling diarrhetic rhetoric of the policy cyborgs I will try and pitchfork you guys last...

[Veilan]

paaz, t-ice and bogs,

you kinda prove part of the point - the 30 day cooldown rule, with such an exception clause, was unrealistic to begin with. T'would have been more practicable, and I dare say sincere, to just write the rule without. You seem to agree with me on half of that at least, that it would have been better without the 30 day rule. The idea to include unenforceable conditions that would not stand the first brush-in with reality is what lead to the problem.

Be up front, pragmatic and realistic, and don't design token rules to assuage and mollify people - that's what this is about.

I still posit that this rule would have appeared more honest and less problematic if we would have been up front about the lack of any 30 day rule, as it now is in effect.

I think every reasonable person would have to agree that t-ice did nothing faulty here. The fault is in the rule, and that you now have the people that told you so saying "I told you so" is, well, something people will have to bear. This is neither an attack on the 2 PC rule nor on a DM - it's highlighting how sensible input into the rule-making got ignored leading to, well, exactly what was spoken about then. I apologise if that critical attitude annoys people, but I believe it is still vital to the functioning of ALFA and its democratic process, and I am confident that this helped improve our rule-making capacity in the future. You know, learning from mistakes.

Anyway, if you understand what I wrote, you'll come to the conclusion that, shockingly, I'm saying the rule should have been put into effect either without the exception clause, or, equally viable from a rule design standpoint, without the 30 day cooldown. I understand that the majority will decide which of those - but that choice was and probably still is necessary.

Cheers,

[I-KP]

Guys, please, enough is enough. This is ALFA-public and everyone is able to see this embarrassing parade of pointless bickering. Take it off-line. (It should never have been on-line in the first place.) Some people, I used to think, should have known better.

[kid]

Jeez, folks.
There's no bickering unless we make it into that.
We're really trying to understand what are the guidlines for playing 2 PCs, whats appropriate and whats not.
We made a rule and now we try to understand how we should follow it.
Nothing here is personal.
Just a question of whats appropriate.

Personal examle: my dorf left BG 15 days ago. I want to bring my TSM dude to BG. 15 days passed. by the rule I should wait 15 days more. apprerantly by paazin i've allready waited 10 days too much... uhm... which leaves me in a place of uncertainty as i've 0 idea what is expected, etc.
So really bickering is not the point. Just trying to understand and fine guidlines we could all play by.