ALFA PG-13 or 18+ ?

[Hialmar]

As far as I know, ALFA has never mentioned being PG-13 at all.

The PG-13 thing as only been stated in relation to the #alandfaraway chat room compared to the #alfa one.

However we have talked about it from time to time when HDMs feared that a minor could be caught in a plot with sex or violence. There have never been any decision made however.

So basically we are unrated currently.

As apparently we are all 18+ and that this fear related to minors surfaces again I think turning 18+ explicitly is a good thing.

I'd propose to put a clear disclaimer like the one Castano wrote in the application near a checkbox where we require applicants to state that they are above 18.

[hollyfant]

I'd propose to put a clear disclaimer like the one Castano wrote in the application near a checkbox where we require applicants to state that they are above 18.

Which is probably a good idea no matter what the final decision is. Some legalese to cover our hosters' wouldn't go amiss.

[Castano]

some resurrection is order here:

http://www.alandfaraway.org/forums/view ... hilit=PG13

We've had people ask to have their kids on here with them. the community consensus back then was no way!

[Blindhamsterman]

minor addition.

I started playing ALFA1 when I was 15, and I believe a reasonable number of players in the past were younger than 18 when they started also. Honestly I don't think there is an issue with folk starting something like ALFA when they're younger than 18, that being said, younger than 15 is probably pushing it.

(here in the UK we have an age rating on movies of 15, I'd think that might cover most of the 'mature' themes that some ALFAns want pretty well)

[dirsa]

i stand by something i mentioned earlier... actual content of alfa is pg13 or something like that. the fact that there's torture equipment displayed, npc whores walking around and we can kill orcs and what not, doesn't it make mature. the mature content comes from interaction with other players/dms, which in all other online games is covered under - online interactions are not rated.

do we want to implicitly state somewhere that mature content is part of alfa? absolutely. you may encounter it. however, i believe stating it as 18+ game world will make this content perceived as mandatory. there are mature things my character will be happy to participate in, and then there are some which make me personally uncomfortable. not my character, mind you. i do not want to be expected to participate in those things. having 18+ rating inevitably will make at least someone to expect that.

here, my two cents.

[Adanu]

i stand by something i mentioned earlier... actual content of alfa is pg13 or something like that. the fact that there's torture equipment displayed, npc whores walking around and we can kill orcs and what not, doesn't it make mature. the mature content comes from interaction with other players/dms, which in all other online games is covered under - online interactions are not rated.

do we want to implicitly state somewhere that mature content is part of alfa? absolutely. you may encounter it. however, i believe stating it as 18+ game world will make this content perceived as mandatory. there are mature things my character will be happy to participate in, and then there are some which make me personally uncomfortable. not my character, mind you. i do not want to be expected to participate in those things. having 18+ rating inevitably will make at least someone to expect that.

here, my two cents.

Fine, Unrated works too... but in all seriousness, hacking off limbs and torture equipment are not 'mature' based? Ok then.

[Dorn]

Other

"Mature content or themes or whatever"

As far as i'm concerned the perceptions are:
Pg13 = bambi or lassie (which is silly considering the nasty stuff people do in ALFA)
R18+ = nude haks and special emotes for shagging (which we dont have..and hopefully never will)

[Regas]

I'd say unrated with a strong warning to under-age players and a clear policy that allows players and DMs to 'opt out' of RP that becomes uncomfortable for them due to graphic situations. DMs especially should be required to 'know and respect the boundaries of their players'.

Regas

[mr duncan]

I wholeheartedly agree that any player can and should be able to back out of a scene that is uncomfortable for them RP wise but the notion that we let in children to play is really unacceptable

Despite the fact that some of our members may have joined while they were not adults does not make it a good thing, and does not make for reason to encourage children to join

Also, yes... if you are not eighteen you are a child no matter how mature you felt while you were a child


J

[Regas]

I wholeheartedly agree that any player can and should be able to back out of a scene that is uncomfortable for them RP wise but the notion that we let in children to play is really unacceptable

Despite the fact that some of our members may have joined while they were not adults does not make it a good thing, and does not make for reason to encourage children to join

Also, yes... if you are not eighteen you are a child not matter how mature you felt while you were a child


J

This brings up a solid issue. US law is tricky where minors are concerned; I'm not sure how liability would work for members in general or for admin if something became an issue. Do we allow minors at all? Does not allowing minors require that we hold out an adult rating? Probably safer than just declaring ourselves 'unrated'. Do we make members 'attest' to their status as an adult? I'm not even sure we're dealing with one set of rules in the US, rather likely the rules of any and all States involved from the minor player's State of residence to the adult's State to the host's State. Yikes!

[Rotku]

ALFA shouldn't restrict age. Silly idea. Restrict maturity, if anything. Force people to under go some psychological survey and if they end up been too immature kick them out. I don't see any real reason to restrict people who are under 17. Nor 16. Under 15 may be pushing it, simply from a maturity level. We're already cutting such a small peice of this market - why go and limit it even more?

The way I like it is R13, unless both parties consent to otherwise. What is wrong with that approach?

[Castano]

ALFA shouldn't restrict age. Silly idea. Restrict maturity, if anything. Force people to under go some psychological survey and if they end up been too immature kick them out. I don't see any real reason to restrict people who are under 17. Nor 16. Under 15 may be pushing it, simply from a maturity level. We're already cutting such a small peice of this market - why go and limit it even more?

The way I like it is R13, unless both parties consent to otherwise. What is wrong with that approach?

It works until some new player says "yeah i'm 18 sure" in some unlogged tell...and his mom then calls up our host and is like "hey whiy are Rotku and my 13 yr old torturing whores in the drow palace?" We have nothing to point to and say - "we told everyone that this place was 18+ and you should police your child's net activity you lazy parent..."

[Dorn]

K hang on.

Lets not get carried away here.

We're talking about a tag (pg13 or R18) that most people wont read, and will never raise as an issue. Certainly there's no number on the website for agro parents to call. Plus. It's easier for a kid to watch hardcore porn on the net than it is to get accepted into ALAF so dont stress.

Just change it to what you think it should be Hialmar provided whatever you put there doesn't change the way we all play, and have played, ALFA for a decade or so.

[Swift]

Also, yes... if you are not eighteen you are a child no matter how mature you felt while you were a child

Pffft. Airlines consider me an adult at 12, you can drive a car at 16 and fight for your country at 17. You cease to be a child long before you turn 18. Whether you cease to act like one is a different think.

[Hialmar]

It works until some new player says "yeah i'm 18 sure" in some unlogged tell...and his mom then calls up our host and is like "hey why are Rotku and my 13 yr old torturing whores in the drow palace?" We have nothing to point to and say - "we told everyone that this place was 18+ and you should police your child's net activity you lazy parent..."

This is exactly why I have voted 18+.
If we have this kind of problem, the people who will be in trouble will either be one of our hosts (the people that freely give their time and ressources to ALFA and who will be identified through their IP addresses), Murky Majare (who owns the alandfaraway.org domain name) or myself (as I'm stated as owner of the website).

That and the fact that ethically I wouldn't say to any minor that ALFA is good for them.

I agree that 15+ might be another solution but as the age poll shows we have currently no one under 18 and NWN2 being an old game it won't attract young people now.