Is it wrong to have a powerbuild if ...

[zicada]

Is it wrong to have a powerbuild if you are an excellent roleplayer?

Logical fallacy much ?

An excellent roleplayer, per definition, does not wish to 'powerbuild'.

[Brokenbone]

In some old iteration of ALFA's rule books (the PDF with a bunch of screenie illustrations?) there was some reminder or example of prohibited behaviour, something like part time roleplayer, part time powergamer. Idea being when other people were around (DM, players), the person is a good citizen, playing engaging characters, helpful and polite if OOC interaction required, etc. Then as soon as no one else is around, off he goes to farm the bejezus out of static content. People come back, he's polite, interesting, etc. again. Usually only found via log searches (hey who turned in 99 bloodhawk feathers to the fletcher quest thingy... who killed 99 bloodhawks for them?).

Folks can be excellent roleplayers. Then do other things when that's not interesting (roleplaying alone with a pet rock won't float all boats).

[hollyfant]

An excellent roleplayer, per definition, does not wish to 'powerbuild'.

Ah yes, the "stormwind fallacy".

Powergaming (which is already a step up from just having a powerbuild) is having fun by playing the system. Roleplaying is having fun by playing a story. Both of these are a dead end, when taken to their extremes: there's nothing to win in D&D, and there's no fun in playing a dead character either. ALFA has a clear focus on RP, and a stated ban on (but no definition of) PG. That should be enough for anyone to decide what's permissible and what now.

But no, let's make a fuss of it all. Heaven forbid we should use some common sense.

[DMyles]

You can have whatever kind of build you want as long as it is within the rules. I have played with a ton of very very good rpers during my time here and I felt most of them were also to some extent powergamers.

I have also played with players who seemed so into there own rp it was more like playing house then playing D&D. Everyone is not going to like your style of play equally.

In my experience the people who cause a problem are playing a ton and living as much in the D&D world as they are in the real world. Most of these players could and would be good players if given some guidance and direction. Powergaming is not their problem. Powergaming is not the devil. Powergaming to much is the problem. We just need to teach them how to tone it down.

[Zelknolf]

Total win on the derail in the first page.

But srsly, this thread totally isn't going to accomplish anything, as the OP is in the format of "Is [bad thing] okay if [good thing]?"

I, therefore, hasten this thread to its logical conclusion and assert that Nazis were powerbuilders -- pal 2/sorc 6/EK X, every one of them, and they suck at playing paladins, but no one makes them fall for some reason -- and people who powerbuild are, therefore, Nazis. It's the commutative property of Nazism. You can't argue against that; it's science.

[JaydeMoon]

What she said.

[hollyfant]

Nonsense. Everybody knows real nazis are Paladin 2/Blackguard 3/Warlock 1/Sorcerer X.

[ElCadaver]

I think in the end, for me, I like playing the system as much as I like RP. And I've become better at playing the system the longer I play, which allows my favorite characters to survive longer and have more adventures, free of stupid meaningless deaths. I'm still on my first NWN2 chr ( though this may have more to do with caution, Kert is not a power build by any means, actually he a bit of a stuff up in that sense) The funny thing is I gave up on paper D&D a while ago due to rules lawyers ruining my enjoyment of the game, and in a way, powegaming is being a closet rules lawyer... except the are making the most of the game mechanics, and not putting one over on fellow players.

[JaydeMoon]

There is nothing wrong with making the mechanics work for you, indeed it is fun to think of creative ways to put things together.

In the end, though, we're an RP community and you should be RPing your character.

[NickD]

I've never been a big fan of number crunching/finding the quickest route to a PRC/finding the best combination of feats/skills/class/items/stats. It seems very contrived, a bit metaish, and overall tends to ignore, as Sander said, IG happenings...

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that.

In real life, people plan their futures out all the time. Often things happen that force the plans to change, but there's nothing wrong with planning ahead from the start.

[ElCadaver]

And thus, my reason for starting this thread is complete ... dragging NickD out of the woodwork!

Wanna play this weekend? hehe

[danielmn]

I've never been a big fan of number crunching/finding the quickest route to a PRC/finding the best combination of feats/skills/class/items/stats. It seems very contrived, a bit metaish, and overall tends to ignore, as Sander said, IG happenings...

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that.

In real life, people plan their futures out all the time. Often things happen that force the plans to change, but there's nothing wrong with planning ahead from the start.

Yes, you plan YOUR future out.
Now, if your PC is planning THEIR future out, and practicing moving silently to better themselves (bumping that skill up next level), cool deal. If your just giving out skillpoints in diplomacy cause you as the player want it, and taking feats in combinations to maximize your potential for having a PC badass who'se untouchable by anything and anyone, well....meh.

[ElCadaver]

Is it wrong to have a powerbuild if you are an excellent roleplayer?

Logical fallacy much ?

An excellent roleplayer, per definition, does not wish to 'powerbuild'.

I reject your conclusion that the two are mutually exclusive

While treating leveling as an organic process based on experience is commedable, "Hero's" are driven to achieve beyond the average person, whatever that motivation might be.

[Rotku]

2.6.1 Powergaming Character Concepts
Creating a character that just happens to be extremely optimised to make XP or wealth does not excuse powergaming. You may be forced to retire your PC and create a new one if your character concept is too powergaming oriented.

Example: (1) Creating a "Min-maxed" character; that is a character with maxed combat abilities and minimised non-combat abilities, such taking a level of Ranger to get dual wield without any legitimate IC reason for the character to have a level of Ranger.

[Swift]

I, therefore, hasten this thread to its logical conclusion and assert that Nazis were powerbuilders -- pal 2/sorc 6/EK X, every one of them, and they suck at playing paladins, but no one makes them fall for some reason -- and people who powerbuild are, therefore, Nazis. It's the commutative property of Nazism. You can't argue against that; it's science.

While I applaud the effort, I am afraid we can't consider this thread to be Godwin'd as the law does not apply when it is intentionally invoked in an attempt to end the thread.

2.6.1 Powergaming Character Concepts
Creating a character that just happens to be extremely optimised to make XP or wealth does not excuse powergaming. You may be forced to retire your PC and create a new one if your character concept is too powergaming oriented.

Example: (1) Creating a "Min-maxed" character; that is a character with maxed combat abilities and minimised non-combat abilities, such taking a level of Ranger to get dual wield without any legitimate IC reason for the character to have a level of Ranger.

I could name a couple of characters off the top of my head that exist right now that would fall foul of this, yet I would never consider asking the players to retire them, as they all have a proven history of strongly favoring RP over other activities in game.

IMO there is absolutely nothing with Powergaming builds, so long as you don't powergame.