Hardcore or Softcore - you guys need to pick

[orangetree]

Hmm...

(1) Can both my PCs have PrCs? (Current rule: no, because DMs have deemed ALFA is already overpopulated with PrCs*)

Agreed. Way too many PRcs.

(2) Can both my PCs be exceptional? (Current rule: no, because DMs have deemed ALFA already overpopulated (in terms of with exceptional PCs*)

Agreed. Heck... exceptional and PrC should be the same group. You shouldn't have one PC that is a PrC, and the other an exceptional race... and to have an exceptional race that _is_ a PrC? Very serious amount of RP work to do that. IMO.

In fact thinking about it, players of 'exceptional' PCs should be forced to actually _play_ those ones instead of their alts. Otherwise they are just banking them. They should only have the one character. (I am a little annoyed with this one, because new players seem to never get a chance to play exceptional PCs, because old players keep them, and this 'quota' system.)

(3) Can I rez a PC repeatedly? (No you should not (no hard cap here))

Well... I would agree to this in principal. I think repeated rezing would require some kind of penalty and recovery time. If one dies 'again' during said recovery time, the penalty should be even worse. (eg, dies before regaining the xp they had already lost, would put them in a far worse position...)

(4) Can I rebuild a PC to something new? (No)

Agreed. You rolled it you roll with it. Or retire the character and make something new.

(5) Can I offer to rebuild a warlock to a rogue to get it out of game? (no I prefer they become sorcerers, which has always been the go to rebuild option for grandfathered warlocks, see DMA for other options)

I've never heard of this issue... but sorcerery sounds logical for strange unknown inherited power.

(6) Can we start at lvl 3 or lvl X if our PC dies in the middle of a campaign? (no, this is only allowed on the forthcoming NWN1 servers HEEGZ may implement)

Agreed. At most, I would bend to level 2 for proven RPers... but then proven RPers would want to earn their level 2.

(7) Can all ALFA PCs have the option to start at lvl 3? (no.)

Possibly provide an xp bonus rate for RPers, so they still have to work towards the levels but take less time.

[boombrakh]

Goddamnit, I guess i'll weigh in as well.

(1) Can both my PCs have PrCs?

Yes. Of course. Why shouldn't you be allowed to? You have to reach level 6 before you can even qualify for a PrC anyways, so there is a rather big step before that can even happen. I find it hard to justify not allowing PrCs for characters. The fact that we're allowed to play two characters shouldn't be a reason for a whole subset of additional rules. Less rules, more fun.

(2) Can both my PCs be exceptional?

Yes. We're not playing farmers here, we're playing heroes and adventurers. We're PCs, which in itself has a whole other set of ability score. By definition, the PCs are better than anyone else. Stop trying to kill stories in the crib and start engaging players and their imagination.

(3) Can I rez a PC repeatedly?

Yup. Even though I myself would not accept repeated rezzes, I wouldn't deny others that right.

(4) Can I rebuild a PC to something new?

If the HDM agrees, then yes. If it fits story-wise, sure. Open doors, don't close them.

(5) Can I offer to rebuild a warlock to a rogue to get it out of game?

Yes. I find that a lot more acceptable than rebuilding a warlock into a Sorcerer. I would never accept the "The PC never really had those powers" solution. I'd rather say "The PC lost those powers, and this is what's left". I don't care if it's a rogue or fighter or whatever. Any martial class really.

(6) Can we start at lvl 3 or lvl X if our PC dies in the middle of a campaign?

Sure, why not?

(7) Can all ALFA PCs have the option to start at lvl 3?

Even though I want everyone to start at level 3, I would settle for level 2 if the new character comes with a character bio that gets approved. Instead of awarding 250xp, I'd like to award 1000xp

[Zelknolf]

- multiply all static xp with some term that includes a division by level (e.g. * 3/(2+lvl))

Or 0.9^(lvl-CR) ?

[Brokenbone]

<SNIP>

Sacred purification to apply positive energy (healing) to all within burst, not just allies. And require a third feat to obtain as per PNP.

<SNIP>

I'd be down with "SP" having the side effect of healing living creatures, be more interesting tactically. There's a lot of creatures who don't quite count as living though, I am sure if anyone wanted to volunteer their effort this way they'd figure that out. However, it does not require any more prereq feats than in NWN2, it's just that the single PnP prerequisite is the "Sacred Healing" feat (blow a TU undead attempt, get +5 Heal rolls and +2 bonus per die on lots of healing spells, not a terrible feat)... our NWN2 prereq though is Extra Turning.

Anyhow over to the general point of the thread, this one'll drift a good bit. Kid has expressed a couple of smart thoughts here and in other forums where the main point I grab onto is that in our small community, we kinda shifted off non-consensual CvC which takes away a huge part of the "competitiveness / arms race" mentality that sometimes could drive play in certain rivalries. Sure, everyone might want a flaming sword of awesome, but it's a different perspective if you play "competitive, CvC possible" to worry about someone ELSE grabbing such a sword (and you therefore worrying about investing in fire resistance gear?) or "oh, so they have a firey sword... whatever, I don't really play with them anyhow."

...

Oh, since I also see this thing branching into 7 point rules, counterproposals, complaints, whatever... let me trot out something I joked with Veilan about multiple times re point (7).

What if someone started with some number of XP to achieve maybe level 2 or level 3, but then had to PAY IT BACK? I am not talking any fancy scripted solution, more like an exceptional process where you say "all right, BB's guy died in the MS slave campaign, everyone else is 4th, he'll start at 4th as well with exactly 6000 XP. Rather than level to 5th when he hits 10,000xp (if ever!), we'll instead reduce him to 6000xp again (which repays a "debt" of 4000), then again at any time he's above 8000xp, we'll knock 2000 off yet again (thereby repaying the whole 6000), so it'll take him basically 10,000xp to "truly" earn 5th. Yeah, other PCs may pull ahead of him but it's not a contest! It's a lot better though than 5 guys with 4 levels having a 1st level caddy for awhile, then he's 2nd, then he's 3rd, etc.

So yeah, XP debts to say "fine, you have a fascinating background as both a priest and a wizard at the same time, you multiclasser" can be a legit start, as long as there's some reasonable hope of repaying the XP. Maybe some of the "loan" would be forgiven in cases, I don't know or care, but it's just an idea as long as it's kept at some reasonable / comfortable level. The "under 5th" territory for example may be good, as opposed to "well, give me level 17, I really want to whip up some nearly epic magic, I will totally pay back 136,000xp before you know it!"

Note it might also be hard to repay this xp debt via statics due to "dimret" like stuff recently introduced. Like "uh, hunting this rat would've been worth 50 to a level 1, but you're level 4 dude, you're getting way less." That's not exactly what the script says to you, you just find you get a piddly payout doing things "beneath" your capabilities with a PC.

I am not saying Veilan's endorsed all the above, it's just a concept we chatted about a long while back.

[HEEGZ]

Veilan brought up the borrowing XP idea with me yesterday. It seems overly complicated. I'd much rather encourage DMs to give inflated awards to level 1 and 2 PCs (if they want it) and be more permissive towards static completion and xp gain for level 1 and 2 PCs. Boom also made a nice suggestion about changing the 250xp bio award to 1000xp instead. I never fully read the old bio xp thread so I may go back and do so after lunch and read the arguments for and against.

[Veilan]

Boom also made a nice suggestion about changing the 250xp bio award to 1000xp instead. I never fully read the old bio xp thread so I may go back and do so after lunch and read the arguments for and against.

Heh. That was actually the initial idea. Level 2 start in figleaf-grade disguise. Stop flogging dead horses .

[Ithildur]

Veilan brought up the borrowing XP idea with me yesterday. It seems overly complicated. I'd much rather encourage DMs to give inflated awards to level 1 and 2 PCs (if they want it) and be more permissive towards static completion and xp gain for level 1 and 2 PCs.

3.5e rules by design are supposed to award larger amounts of xp anyway to lower lvls mixed in with higher lvls; the idea is they're taking bigger risks but part of the intent is also that they catch up to the rest of the group.

It's built into the system folks. Use it, tweak it a bit if a campaign DM feels the need to award more than the extra 10% or so to help the lower lvl catch up.

Kind of pointless to start with 'borrowed' xp if they fall behind again later on anyway, why borrow xp to begin with?

As to the rest, generally agree with most of what Rumple/Veilan said, but I can't believe we're doing this dance (again).

[HEEGZ]

Boom also made a nice suggestion about changing the 250xp bio award to 1000xp instead. I never fully read the old bio xp thread so I may go back and do so after lunch and read the arguments for and against.

Heh. That was actually the initial idea. Level 2 start in figleaf-grade disguise. Stop flogging dead horses .

I feel like I am endlessly rediscovering them. Also, I need to find the bio xp thread still.

[Zelknolf]

3.5e rules by design are supposed to award larger amounts of xp anyway to lower lvls mixed in with higher lvls; the idea is they're taking bigger risks but part of the intent is also that they catch up to the rest of the group.

It's built into the system folks. Use it, tweak it a bit if a campaign DM feels the need to award more than the extra 10% or so to help the lower lvl catch up.

It's also already in ALFA's systems.

DMs are supposed to reward based on risk (which is consistently higher for lower-level PCs) and RP (which we define pretty crappily such that it's almost always "good"), and I certainly reward that way-- though might blame the "reward party" button as the primary cause of this not being consistently done. "Here's your core UI that primarily asks you to reflect on the last few hours and provide rewards based on these criteria, and here's the button on the bottom to ignore all of that and undermine one of our foundational assumptions." Might reject that button yourself and encourage people to reward individuals instead of parties, still.

[HEEGZ]

I need to locate this "reward party" button. I do it individually... ?

[Rumple C]

Two options on the bottom corners of the give xp box.

Reward pc and reward party.

[trentfrompunchy83]

Race – Human (ethnic group not allowed without application)
Class – Peasant (on consent from HDM)
PrC – Farmer (after extensive review of your RP to make sure it fits with someone else’s perception that may not even know or have DM’d you – 1 per account)
Story – Tavern catch up with urchin friends, planting seeds (slaying of monsters such as toads and beetles strictly on a one per lifetime basis – we aren’t special here)
Death – old age (disease by application, accident on a 1 per account basis)

/sarcasm

No seriously, consider the above. I have tried to get 3 people from other, more populated worlds to join ALFA. They are turned off by the restrictions on race, class and PrC’s. If someone wants to play a Drow why won’t you let them? It does not make them strange, a cheater, a DM hog, greedy or an evil person – stop treating them as such.

More options, not less.

[Zelknolf]

One could very easy make the opposite sarcastic strawman, proposing a fey'ri-vampire-werewolf, being the first child of Aulmpiter, warlock/bladesinger/hellfire warlock, being slain in battle repeatedly and raised from the dead by Asmodeus personally each time.

The trick of course is that no one is actually asking for either extreme.

[Ronan]

If someone wants to play a Drow why won’t you let them?

Drow (and duergar, grey orcs, etc.) are something of a special case as they are KOS most places. This means they're either bored in the Underdark alone, or create more work for the DM team on the surface. Of course the same is not true of many exceptional PCs.

...might blame the "reward party" button as the primary cause of this not being consistently done.

Pretty much. And post-session fatigue, players saying they need to log off NOW, etc.

The trouble with re-leveling as a different class is that it often makes no IC sense to suddenly gain skills you didn't have, and the game has no mechanic for gradual class level replacement. It'd be great if a level 10 warlock could say "I'm going to be a rogue now", and start gaining rogue levels as if he was a level 1 PC, but replacing his warlock levels with each rogue level gained. I'd be ok with a more sudden retrain it when it makes IC sense, and the net change is a loss in character power and level (say going from a clr10 to a ftr7). If the player is in it for the story they should not mind losing a bit of power.

Edit: Boom, I think you've yet to realize that what is good for an individual player may be very bad for many other players.

As far as hardcore vs. softcore, the truth is we have very little evidence either way. Using science in sociology is incredibly difficult due to all the cofounding variables present in any sort of study; just look at the history of economics for many examples of people screwing it up. I tend to favor the "ALFA is too soft" viewpoint, but that may be availability bias on my part as I obviously don't play with people who are afraid of losing their PC. Edit: We should favor the status-quo because change is costly, but not believe the status-quo is correct just because we have no evidence otherwise. That'd be status quo bias.

[Galadorn]

I love that Peasant idea. Except I would request starting at level zero (-500xp, I would just ask any DM to withdraw the first 500xp gained) with no armor and only farm tools (minus to damage, and I would check combat log and any roll of a natural 1 means I would discard the weapon as "broken").
No feats (I would spend the 1-2 feats on non-combat feats or feats that only would possibly only ever be of use much later or so rarely that in fact they are totally ineffective until "real level 1" is gained...EX: Exotic Weapon Feat... And not own or use that exotic weapon...easiest way to accomplish that - and retro-RP the training for that weapon "later".) Sounds so fun to come from such humble background and hopefully survive and become an adventurer, develop, and have that story to remember where you came from and what you've become. Maybe eventually finding faith... Few levels of Fighter, and possibly Paladin later on.... Or Rogue til 3... Fighter for level 4-5, and for such a lowly background being accepted by "a" Church as a Paladin someday if the RP works out, for me, being a Paladin for THAT PC really WOULD feel like a PrC. *shrugs*

In fact when Bu breaks level 19, I think I will. Thx Trent!