Do you think we should incorporate ALFA ?

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:20 am

White Warlock wrote:Anyway, part of the expense to obviously consider, is the bandwidth. A grand and expensive computer does not take into account the expense associated with maintaining a huge bandwidth. Even if a computer can maintain 7 (or 20) modules, the bandwidth will be limited to the connection that, in and of itself, will need to be payed out to a 3rd party.

Have you considered this in your schemes?

It's been covered several times already. $80 a month is more than any one person is paying for hosting now, but far less than we're paying all together.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:29 am

Grand Fromage wrote: It's been covered several times already. $80 a month is more than any one person is paying for hosting now, but far less than we're paying all together.

But are these hosting expenses more than what they would normally be paying for their internet services? I.e., are they paying over and above?

Also, a single computer hosting multiple modules does not address the bandwidth issue that will be required to accommodate all those modules at a single location. The price for incrementally greater bandwidth goes up exponentially.

zicada · Post by **zicada** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:31 am

White Warlock wrote:
Grand Fromage wrote: It's been covered several times already. $80 a month is more than any one person is paying for hosting now, but far less than we're paying all together.
But are these hosting expenses over and above what they would normally be paying for their internet services? I.e., are they paying over and above?

7 individuals hosting their own server at home = $280/m

1 server at a serverpark = $80/m

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:37 am

White Warlock wrote:
Grand Fromage wrote: It's been covered several times already. $80 a month is more than any one person is paying for hosting now, but far less than we're paying all together.
But are these hosting expenses more than what they would normally be paying for their internet services? I.e., are they paying over and above?

Yes. To host a server you need upload, and upload is what costs the serious cash. For general internet usage you wouldn't need to be paying extra for that. We'd make it up in DS servers alone.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:38 am

Zic, you ignored entirely the content of my post. Really, you did. I asked not what they are paying, but whether they are paying over and above what they would 'normally' be paying for their internet access. Also, we really have not obtained a full report of everyone's expenses on this issue, and what expenses are above that of their normal internet connection, if any at all.

And, finally, the expense you presented, about 1 server at a serverpark, only covers maintenance. It does not also cover the bandwidth. With a server accommodating all that many modules (7), we're talking a huge bandwidth dependency. What's the cost for that?

My issue is similar to Indio's, without the personal attacks. I am hesitant with all this, Zic, because the proposal is not fully detailed and has not provided sufficient information on the various alternatives. It's an all or nothing proposal, without a detailed comparative to our existing approach.

Still, do understand i'm interested. I would just prefer a far better presentation before you see my dollars going into this.

zicada · Post by **zicada** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:44 am

White Warlock wrote:Zic, you ignored entirely the content of my post. Really, you did. I asked not what they are paying, but whether they are paying over and above what they would 'normally' be paying for their internet access. Also, we really have not obtained a full report of everyone's expenses on this issue, and what expenses are above that of their normal internet connection, if any at all.

And, finally, the expense you presented, about 1 server at a serverpark, only covers maintenance. It does not also cover the bandwidth. With a server accommodating all that many modules (7), we're talking a huge bandwidth dependency. What's the cost for that?

My issue is similar to Indio's, without the personal attacks. I am hesitant with all this, Zic, because the proposal is not fully detailed and has not provided sufficient information on the various alternatives. It's an all or nothing proposal, without a detailed comparative to our existing approach.

Still, do understand i'm interested. I would just prefer a far better presentation before you see my dollars going into this.

I ignored it because it has allready been covered.

We have also been over that since we have no idea how much money we will get out of this, we cant do any presentations on what we are buying. That time comes when we see what sort of sums we have to work with. I am asking everyone who decides to make a donation to trust the IA and TA + teams in their decisionmaking abilities for ALFA.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:45 am

Oi crap, trust total strangers on the internet with $7000. ... ...

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:47 am

White Warlock wrote:And, finally, the expense you presented, about 1 server at a serverpark, only covers maintenance. It does not also cover the bandwidth. With a server accommodating all that many modules (7), we're talking a huge bandwidth dependency. What's the cost for that?

What are you talking about maintenance? What you pay is bandwidth. And bandwidth isn't that expensive--I'm currently getting 2.5 terabytes a month for $3. That's on a deal, but once the deal ends I'll be getting 4 terabytes a month for $12. That is way more bandwidth than a game server will ever use. This is also in the US, where bandwidth is relatively expensive.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:51 am

Could you detail this, as well as the company u are using? I mean, if it's so cheap, then why aren't all the other hosters here doing the same thing? Also, how much would it cost for what is needed for 7 computers (or modules)? What's the bandwidth for each module?

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:54 am

And why the rush?

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:57 am

Geez Mik, don't you know? His mortgage is due.

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:02 am

I am asking everyone who decides to make a donation to trust the IA and TA + teams in their decisionmaking abilities for ALFA.

zicada · Post by **zicada** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:07 am

indio wrote:
I am asking everyone who decides to make a donation to trust the IA and TA + teams in their decisionmaking abilities for ALFA.

You forgot to write anything.

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:16 am

I think that must have been my way of saying there's nothing more needs be said. Good luck earning that trust. You might chat to cipher, if he's willing, to see how he's earned it.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:04 am

Mikayla, how much of what you have descirbed above is listed in the Article of Incorporation vs been left up to the individual clubs to decided upon in their Bylaws?

I know dealing with incorperated clubs in NZ, a lot of it is left up to the club consistution to call - the main things that are required legally is from my knowledge (and I'm no lawyer, just had a fair bit of dealings with incoperated societies):

(a) Submit to the Registrar yearly auditted financial statements, changes to the societies rules and contact detail changes;
(b) Run yearly AGMs, of which notice needs to be given X days in advance to all members, from which the officers are elected (no fixed positions required, from my understanding, so it is possible to stick with LA, DMA, etc, etc), the financial records are approved and any rule changes made;
(c) Have a standing set of rules, which detail:
- Name of the society
- The objects (purpose) of the society
- How people become a member of the society
- How people stop being a member of the society
- How the rules can be changed
- How meetings will be held (including how to notify members of meetings and voting rights at the meeting)
- Appointment of officers (for example the treasurer)
- Control and use of the society’s common seal
- Control and investment of society funds
- Powers of the society to borrow money (if any)
- How the society’s property will be distributed if it is wound-up or dissolved
Some of which have certain conditions to follow, such as the name must include Incoperated in it.
The society must not make a profit, carry out any illegal activites etc.
Keep an up-to-date list of all registered members.
Have a common seal.

Just for two examples of constitutions from incoperated clubs that I've been involved with:
Kapiti Coast Archery Club Constitution
Victory University Wellington Hockey Club Constitution
They seem a lot more simple and straight forward than what you are suggesting. I'm not sure if the USA is particularly complex, but if we do choose to go this route it might pay for us to look at other options out side of the USA, to keep things more simple (and possibably inline with what we currently have).