Plane Touched Proposal Discussion

This is a general open discussion for all ALFA, Neverwinter Nights, and Dungeons & Dragons topics.

Moderator: ALFA Administrators

User avatar
Wynna
Dungeon Master
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Seattle, WA (PST)

Post by Wynna »

Veilan wrote:
Wynna wrote:Whereas, for the record, I feel that bio approval is warranted for PT and extraordinary, but not UD.
I'm curious as to why.
Glad to oblige.

My opinion is that UD have both an IC and an OOC reason to refrain from bio approval. The IC is that because they have the UD in which to play, they are not going to be extraordinary characters UNTIL and UNLESS they venture onto the surface. We are not discussing surface ventures by UD PCs, but if we were, I would urge cross-DM cooperation and prior approval at that stage rather than at creation. The OOC is because the three UD races have never required bio approval in ALFA and I am loathe to change precedent. Please note that if I was ever outvoted formally on this (which neither this debate nor the poll open in the DM forum would constitute) I would go gracefully into that dark night.

PT, however, are quite likely to be mixing with standard races, and because PT has the potential to be extraordinary, I would have bio approval for them. I could probably be argued out of this, if the "Extraordinary PC's" category explicitly covered PT including those who look, act or are engendered in an extraordinary fashion.

And if anybody has anything to add about population control, as per Rusty's request, I'll give it a few more days before bringing Thang's proposal to Admin.
Enjoy the game
Veilan
Lead Admin
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:33 pm
Location: UTC+1
Contact:

Post by Veilan »

Wynna wrote:The OOC is because the three UD races have never required bio approval in ALFA and I am loathe to change precedent.
In fact, several servers have required prior bio approval for UD races (and at times, others) - non surface servers among them.
The power of concealment lies in revelation.
User avatar
Wynna
Dungeon Master
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Seattle, WA (PST)

Post by Wynna »

Veilan wrote:
Wynna wrote:The OOC is because the three UD races have never required bio approval in ALFA and I am loathe to change precedent.
In fact, several servers have required prior bio approval for UD races (and at times, others) - non surface servers among them.
Sure. And as I said to Rusty this morning, I'd love for HDMs of servers to retain the right to ask for bios or not. I just don't want to mandate it.
Enjoy the game
Veilan
Lead Admin
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:33 pm
Location: UTC+1
Contact:

Post by Veilan »

Wynna wrote:Sure. And as I said to Rusty this morning, I'd love for HDMs of servers to retain the right to ask for bios or not.
Ah, thanks for the clarification!
Wynna wrote:I just don't want to mandate it.
Heh - didn't know you were planning to run for DMA 8).
The power of concealment lies in revelation.
Thangorn
Haste Bear
Posts: 2081
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:00 pm
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand

Post by Thangorn »

Rusty wrote: The other area input would be particularly useful on, is population control. Thangs rightly highlighted this: does anyone have anything to add?
...
Wynna wrote: Thangorn's proposal is ready for pure Admin review.
Rusty wrote: We still need some more ideas on this.
Since my proposal is a proposed beta test of one way of technically and practically adding plane-touched to the ALFA, I dont see that a decision on population needs to be made immediately. I hope to be able to bring some data to the table before an admin decision about plane-touched population is finalised.

What I am saying is that I wish to separate my proposed beta test from being dependant any decision making process regarding PT population. This is because I would want to impartially test some issues related to population.

Now that I've cleared that up, I don't have a strong opinion on plane-touched population controls so I will attempt to discuss the arguments that relate to the issue.

As far as I understand it, if we continue the path of the discussions that have been there are two schools of thought on the matter:

That mechanical, administrative and roleplay limitations: eg. LA, role-playing a social "outcast" or "pariah" and/or bio approvals are going to be population limiting factors enough and no further caps are necessary as player choice will reach a natural population balance as a result.

The other school of thought might be that a numerical limitation of some form be imposed and without this form of imposition we may have ALFA's immersion derailed by excessive plane-touched entities.

The former school's hypothesis are based on how the plane-touched racial type's limitations vs benefits as implemented by ALFA. My beta test can offer a study how these limitations translate and hopefully we can estimate whether they might be a "natural enough" population control mechanism. One of the limitations that might also affect this element of population control is how approvals are managed and how that might affect player choice.
We are much closer to understanding what limitations might affect player choice on this matter than we are to finding out exactly what numerical cap would be best for ALFA.

In the latter hypothesis of essential numerical limitations, we don't yet have constant on exactly what the cap should be. Broadly speaking caps have been discussed on a ALFA wide and per server level and have encompassed hard numerical caps and percentage of population caps. This one seems the most difficult to reach an acceptable standard on.

It seems to defeat the purpose of population control to say for example "We will allow 10 plane-touched per server" and have the first 10 rolled characters on the new server be plane-touched. The argument also starts to get murky when we say "We will allow a plane-touched ratio of 1:10 players on server". After one is made do we then say "no more plane-touched until we get 10 more players", 10 more players when? and at what times? and what if I am Australian and want to play plane-touched? Am I denied because there is never more than 5 players on at my play-times? If it is every 10 active players, what is active enough to constitute active.

I'm not saying that there aren't moderates from both schools of thought or even other completely different permutations for population control. I do however think it is important to examine the extremes and see whether a workable solution can come out of it that will be acceptable or at the very least tolerable for the majority of ALFAns. It seems horribly complex but the nuances are important for immersion in role-play and plane-touched population is one of the most prominent in the morass of issues that surround plane-touched and their implementation in ALFA NWN2.
On indefinite real life hiatus

[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
User avatar
Wynna
Dungeon Master
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Seattle, WA (PST)

Post by Wynna »

My thoughts on population control, rather than numerical caps, fall on the 'dm purview' side of things. Tie it in with the bio approval. If there are too many PT in ALFA at any one time, the DMs are quite able to say "Hold on, fella. Not now but maybe in {one/two/ten} PC/s from now. That way, it's the responsibility of those who would be needing to spend the time with the PCs they approve. Check and balance, right there.
Enjoy the game
User avatar
Wynna
Dungeon Master
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Seattle, WA (PST)

Post by Wynna »

All right. Taking this to Admin for discussion of all points raised, and then a vote after.
Enjoy the game
User avatar
Wynna
Dungeon Master
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Seattle, WA (PST)

Post by Wynna »

4:0 at this point, this has passed Admin. Godspeed, Thangorn, and good luck with your test. Contact any of us you need to help.
Enjoy the game
Thangorn
Haste Bear
Posts: 2081
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:00 pm
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand

Post by Thangorn »

Thanks Wynna & Co.,

I'll get started in about 1-2 weeks when my new monitor arrives..

Oh btw since you offered some help. I need some builders, can you clone the entire TSM team for me? Thanks.

- Dez
On indefinite real life hiatus

[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
Post Reply