Changes you might like to know concerning NWN 2 ALFA!

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun May 04, 2008 4:21 am

Brutus2_ wrote:It's easier for people to accept changes if they at least can see the thought process behind it.

Having seen many of them myself, it would actually probably make it worse.

hollyfant · Post by **hollyfant** » Sun May 04, 2008 5:34 pm

"People who enjoy sausage and respect the law should not watch either being made."
- Otto von Bismark

dirsa · Post by **dirsa** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:05 pm

hollyfant wrote:"People who enjoy sausage and respect the law should not watch either being made."
- Otto von Bismark

that explains awful lot...
i've never been to sausage factory, but they took us on a class trip to see some political debate in gradeschool...

Vendrin · Post by **Vendrin** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:10 am

So, supposedly standards are discussing the classes now... Honestly what's to discuss? If they are going to be changed(which they shouldn't) can people start playing them in the meanwhile?

Just allow the classes to be played already. A month past live and this still hasn't gotten anywhere.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:22 am

I may be biased since i am playing a mage, but i for one am glade we do not yet see super duper cast all day 'locks running around

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:55 am

Vendrin wrote:So, supposedly standards are discussing the classes now... Honestly what's to discuss? If they are going to be changed(which they shouldn't) can people start playing them in the meanwhile?

Just allow the classes to be played already. A month past live and this still hasn't gotten anywhere.

You mean Warlocks are still not allowed? I thought this was already resolved - the only restricted class currently listed in the APM is Favored Soul.

Why are they considered overpowered, anyways? I've heard Warlocks are rather weak, and FS seem identical to divine sorcerers at a glance. Is it the stigma of being new to NWN2?

Brutus2_ · Post by **Brutus2_** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:04 pm

Kestenvarn wrote: Why are they considered overpowered, anyways? I've heard Warlocks are rather weak, and FS seem identical to divine sorcerers at a glance. Is it the stigma of being new to NWN2?

I tried to ask why for an explaination of why the FS was not allowed along with an explaination for some of the other changes and all I got were sarcastic replies about being better that we don't know.

Magonushi · Post by **Magonushi** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:35 pm

The main problem I think comes in the form of multiclassing with these classes. At least in my experience a rogue+warlock build can get massive skill boost. My massive I mean like +14 in bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate by level 2.

As long as warlock isn't multiclassed though he is rather weak. Multiclass him with almost anything and especially in a RP environment he can quickly become overpowered.

That being said I'd like to see the shadow council allow Warlocks and FSs for now but restrict their multiclassing to zero until the balancing is worked out.

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:50 pm

Magonushi wrote:The main problem I think comes in the form of multiclassing with these classes. At least in my experience a rogue+warlock...

Well, there goes that character concept.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:55 pm

Brutus2_ wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote: Why are they considered overpowered, anyways? I've heard Warlocks are rather weak, and FS seem identical to divine sorcerers at a glance. Is it the stigma of being new to NWN2?
I tried to ask why for an explaination of why the FS was not allowed along with an explaination for some of the other changes and all I got were sarcastic replies about being better that we don't know.

I wasn't being sarcastic.... If you knew the lame-brained reasoning behind it you'd pull your hair out. Just look at the traps thread. It's not like you can actually reason with these people. It truly is better not to know and just play. If you want to make ALFA better, become a voting member.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:07 pm

Just FYI, the short version is that, despite conceding that they are less powerful than the already available single-classed cleric, both favored souls and Warlocks are considered overpowered. I never did understand why favored souls got the label. They sure look like a nerfed cleric to me, with spontaneous spellcasting not being more powerful than access to higher level spells, domains, and undead turning IMO, but warlocks got it for the dumbest reason of all: They can potentially exploit monster AI. Well, any decent stealth archer can exploit monster AI and, slowly, kill with impunity. I've watched it be done. You tease out a few monsters at a time, or you set up a killing circle, or you find some uncrossable terrain, etc etc. Maybe we should ban all ranged weapons? Heck, maybe we should just remove the monsters and let everyone chat in taverns.

Or, if you really wanted to absolutely prevent PG'ing, which seems to be the motive behind all the worst decisions in ALFA, maybe you should just zero out combat xp and all other xp and let people start at 4th level, leveling on a time based rate thereafter.

Better still, maybe we should just give players lots of options and trust them to play and RP well. Nah!

Burt · Post by **Burt** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:07 pm

Magonushi wrote:My massive I mean like +14 in bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate by level 2.

God damn PGers walking around with their massive social skills.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:10 pm

Burt wrote:
Magonushi wrote:My massive I mean like +14 in bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate by level 2.
God damn PGers walking around with their massive social skills.

And if they paired up with a second level bard, they would be improved by 2 more! The horror!

Magonushi · Post by **Magonushi** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:37 pm

Ok, for those of you who think social skills are worthless what about 14+ ranks in tumble by level 2 as rogue/lock or having 24 dex as a level 2 hin rogue/lock? Don't forget the charisma based boost to all saves a lock can get either.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:44 pm

Magonushi wrote:Ok, for those of you who think social skills are worthless what about 14+ ranks in tumble by level 2 as rogue/lock or having 24 dex as a level 2 hin rogue/lock? Don't forget the charisma based boost to all saves a lock can get either.

Ranks is being misused here, as ranks means how many points you've invested. Skill total is what you're looking for.

With a 20 dex and just for kicks skill focus feat: Tumble, a 2nd level straight classed elven rogue would have a tumble skill of 5 ranks +5 dex mod + 3 skill focus feat + 1 background feat = wait for it..... 14!

Of course, he'd only likely have 14 hit points too, or likely less, so any decent hit will likely kill him. Likely.