A house divided against itself cannot stand

Valdimir · Post by **Valdimir** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:32 am

danielmn wrote:NC...it is one of the few places I have actually felt welcomed

Ugh!! *grasps weakly for knife in back*
Just kidding, Dan - I know (or hope) you didn't mean it like that...

Not that I necessary oppose a higher starting level, but I am not sure I understand the reluctance to start at level one. Noone has a problem with it in NWN2. Not to be harsh, but to me it sounds like an excuse. It is harder to return to a place where your now retired PC once dominated and now be afraid to walk through a back alley at night. But why not roll up a PC? After all, you can have two at a time now (NWN1 & 2, of course). Try playing a class you've never run or visiting a server you've never played. It can be refreshing.

I try to mix in a fair amount of non-violent RP into my campaigns, so it is possible to join a higher level party if you are careful. But better yet, get me three PCs that can meet any given night of the week between 8-11pm EST, and you've got yourself a campaign DM. No kidding, Misty cut short her return to Sembia as a DM because she simply could not find players. What gives? We are here for you. Why clamor for free levels or multiple statics when you have real live DMs willing to run a campaign for you? All I ask is that you link up with a few friends and pick a night. Think about it...

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:42 am

Wow, you're not going to get a better offer than that.

Marklos · Post by **Marklos** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:44 am

This is the most beautiful thing in ALFA. This is the reason I am still here. It's people like this that are willing to sacrifice time and energy for the benefit and enjoyment of other people.

This is exactly why I voted no on the NWN1 revival thread. Why revive an dead old server when you have live servers with live DMs simply waiting around for players? Makes no sense to me.

danielmn · Post by **danielmn** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:46 am

lol, Vald, you know I lurves you guys...never played all that much there though, so I can't really speak for you.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:03 am

well let's get a lowbie gig goin. what do you need me to play?

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:05 am

danielmn wrote:lol, Vald, you know I lurves you guys...never played all that much there though, so I can't really speak for you.

Good, good, your already developing the typical Cormyrean distrust of Sembia. Good good

Dorn · Post by **Dorn** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:58 am

Comment:
I'm not sure the issue raised of peoplel in nwn1 platform feeling left behind is giong to be solved by allowing them to start at an increased level in nwn2. THe fundamental is that they want/have to play nwn1 for a variety of reasons.

I also think that alfa is about RP and not levelling so using that as a goodwill gesture is somehow conterproductive when some of the best RP i've seen over the years is from 'new' adventurers learning the ropes.

Suggestion:
- Lusipher reviews website for relevence to both platforms and discusses with hialmar

- Lusipher considers upcoming NWNcon and promotes NWN1 equaly to NWN2 (provided he gets any support from anyone from either platform! we make our own success in this place...cant blame admin/staff)

- FI review OAS1 and OAS2 DMs, gamespy/website messages about what to do if no DMs are available. ALso re-confirm written app process if no oasDMs are available so we dont hold up people wanting to play here (live server DMs and the PA/ARs have proved themselves capable of mentoring/regulating players who are out of bounds if one or two slip through).

- Spider ask any of the OAS1 DMs if they want to DM ALFA1 servers even temporarily/part time

- Paazin make a statement recognising there are two PWs in this community both starting at level 1, both having one PC each etc ...to clear up uncertanties.

- Paazin apologise to alfans feeling relegated on behalf of previous admins (hehe)

- AL/Zelk to....well both their platforms seem to recognise alfa1 and alfa 2 both as both seem to say the other can take the lead for the respective platform so most of the problems seem to be resolved there if we look forwards instead of backwards

- all of us recognise it's volunteer so sometimes if we want something done we'll have to do it ourselves and can't expect others to

- both ALFA2 and ALFA1 DMs promote what's going on story/plot wise on their servers to hook interest of players. (ie alfa1 - OMG the highbies are attacking shade!? and the lowbies are going on a quest to save the princess to take control after shade's gone!? alfa2 - omg is that orc attack happeneing more often? is obould stirring in the mountains?)

Just some incomplete suggestions/thoughts

PS - this may all have been done as i haven't looked just me talking off the top of my head...if so awesome! and i'm not at all suggesting that people aren't doing things right. After all as FI rightly pointed out somewhere else...staffing/admining is on top of RL needs, on top of RL wants, , on top of playing/DMing, on top of etc etc so lets not expect a full time commitment ............i'd never give that myself)

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:24 am

Dorn wrote:review OAS1 and OAS2 DMs, gamespy/website messages about what to do if no DMs are available. ALso re-confirm written app process if no oasDMs are available so we dont hold up people wanting to play here

This actually gives me some very good ideas to address it on the OAS2... may have to wait for a bit to implement, but hmm..

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:28 am

Thank you so many that participated in this thread.

Zelknolf wrote: If I may begin by suggestion that the two quotations provided are not valid on the topic of the schism between our two platforms, as neither plays in ALFA, and their departures had essentially happened before we even began work on NWN2. To assume that the problems they presented are still valid is to assume that either our community is unchanged over the past 2-3 years or that someone outside of the community is capable of maintaining a sound opinion of our community from an uninvolved position. I believe that, barring some greater insight, those opinions are best left untended to for the time being.

Thank you for posting Zelk. I wish to correct your comment here, regarding the quotes i presented in my post. Only one of the persons i quoted or paraphrased is no longer a member of ALFA, and that person left recently, not years ago. The majority of what i presented in my posts has been comments and statements made by still-active members (dms, ex-admins, players, etc) of ALFA who now avoid the forums like the plague. So, please, don't try to dismiss them, or my presentation of their grievances, by claiming they are disgruntled ex-members. That guess you presented is simply false.

In short, stop calling them inconsequential, and stop questioning the integrity of my presentations. It is unacceptable.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:19 am

Whitey was paid to be circumstantial. Bad whitey!

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:36 am

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:36 pm

White Warlock wrote:Thank you for posting Zelk. I wish to correct your comment here, regarding the quotes i presented in my post. Only one of the persons i quoted or paraphrased is no longer a member of ALFA, and that person left recently, not years ago. The majority of what i presented in my posts has been comments and statements made by still-active members (dms, ex-admins, players, etc) of ALFA who now avoid the forums like the plague. So, please, don't try to dismiss them, or my presentation of their grievances, by claiming they are disgruntled ex-members. That guess you presented is simply false.

In short, stop calling them inconsequential, and stop questioning the integrity of my presentations. It is unacceptable.

You quoted Inaubryn and Duck; the former has been disconnected from our community since the start of the Exodus project - and indeed told me that such was his intention when he asked me to script for them - and the latter overtly said that he 'just looked' at our forums after returning from a long hiatus. They are not active members and have not been for some time; their opinions are based on observations long passed.

If there are still active members saying the same thing, please quote them, but currently and from my perspective, your presentation appears to be a bluff, as the quotes found are from people who deliberately and successfully pulled away from our community some time ago, and the 'points' are scoldings and orders combined with a statement of superiority -- one based on bigotry, no less. Perhaps journalism awards are awarded by different criteria where you come from, but by me, a statement of "I am [age, sex, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion] and therefore better than you." destroys an author's credibility and integrity. Frankly, were I in a position to do so, I would give infra strikes for such talk; I wager it would go far to improve the feel of the community.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:10 pm

Heh, like Duck needs a proxy to post through; he's the most forum prolific ex-member here.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Zelknolf wrote:If there are still active members saying the same thing, please quote them, but currently and from my perspective, your presentation appears to be a bluff, as the quotes found are from people who deliberately and successfully pulled away from our community some time ago,

And as usual comments from people on why they left and what could/should be done to address them are quickly dismissed. Lovely and absolutely not helpful. Instead of obsessing about who might have said them how or who repeated them how about you consider the fact that there is a LOT of commonality in the reasons given because we've heard them all before. I read WW's post and found myself nodding because over the years I've heard all the same things in Tells, PMs and IRC chats. Same comments and the fully anticipated dismissal as history repeats over lessons unlearned.

As I said, there's nothing new in what WW quoted and it's a bit petty to wish for power to deliver Infra-strikes just because a poster pumps their ooc life achievements. It's called ego and we see it everywhere on the Net in community forums, ALFA in spades and frankly I'd accept reading that over the cheap-shots, flat out insults and STFUs that were so accustomed to here.

I think what people are getting tired of are all the threads about what the problems are and requests for suggestions on how to address them and no action being taken at the end of the day. At least nothing stated publicly to indicate that we're not in Groundhog Day. As usual, there will be discussions and debates on a subject and after a short period of time the next "issue" promptly buries it under the sands of time with nothing done, minus the chin wagging and posturing. Months later something happens to dig it up again... there's more talk, more posturing... and then another sand storm.

Enough talk, action please.

Kate

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:11 pm

Going back to the topic at hand, the cause of the schism was originally claimed to be a "miscommunication." I think there was no miscommunication, I think there was an open and honest and affirmative rejection of one platform in preference to another. The only way to fix that is with an open and honest and affirmative acceptance of both platforms. Maybe I simply missed it, but I have yet to see an affirmation of both platforms being supported fully by ALFA admin. That would be one really easy "action" on admin's part that would help bridge the split. That split may have been mostly due to the words and actions of now departed admins, but the current admins get the mess to clean up.

Another action would be to make it a lot easier to join ALFA, because membership numbers are troubling. Is it correct that OAS applicants still need to fill out a written app? The last time we went through admissions woes I seem to recall a big push to streamline the application process.

Though I have to agree with Zelk, anecdotes from people holding a grudge against ALFA isn't really the most reliable information regarding most members, even if those anecdotal people are being honest. I have always believed that most people leave ALFA, and every other PW, over a combination of RL and not getting their gaming needs met, whether that be static content or DM time or whatever it is they came here looking for and didn't find. Doesn't mean we can't clean up the forums and make other improvements, but I doubt the forums are the majority reason for departure, given how easy it is to just not read them.