Amn PC's

[fluffmonster]

Exodus PCs played through the game just like ALFA PCs did. To be ported in gives them nothing special that they did not already earn. Any argument that they might have had it easier in Exodus is utter hypocrisy in the face of the variety of experiences that happens within ALFAs walls already.

This debate seems very churlish. Are we really so venal to think that Amn PCs are so unworthy or disruptive? Are we willing to subject alfa pcs to the same level of scrutiny being leveled here? If we say with any integrity that PCs shape the world, how can we bring in Amn without its PCs?

[kid]

Well Veilan the difference is that ALFA did not name whatever project Zelk played on as a sister project, nor any other project. Nor can we due to a lot of complications investigate these situations.

It also isn't a project that the owners of which are merging with ALFA, which should render the concern unwarranted based on that fact alone.

this.

If we say with any integrity that PCs shape the world, how can we bring in Amn without its PCs?

and this.

we should have a look at the PCs we bring simply becuase we dont know them.
but unless some are three headed dragons, or something that is entirely against the way we see ALFA, bring them along.

[oldgrayrogue]

The way I see it the Amn server was pretty much already an ALFA server, at least in terms of principles and play style, there was just no actual bridge between the two worlds. The "rebuild under ALFA's systems" outlined by Dorn seems quite reasonable to me. Remember, these are existing PCs on that server, some of whom by the accounts have been played for years. We are not letting new players join with a brand new high level PC. We are allowing them to continue playing an existing PC.

I also agree that this arrangement, if approved, should only apply to Exodus -- as well as any other project we may decide to merge with like Exodus. As I recall, when the merger first came up this was actually a topic of some discussion.

[Adanu]

Oh, and for the record; Damien never got his 3k XP start. I think he got maybe 500 xp from t-ice at one point... that's it.

[Zelknolf]

The way I see it the Amn server was pretty much already an ALFA server, at least in terms of principles and play style, there was just no actual bridge between the two worlds.

The trouble of course is that it wasn't an ALFA server. That very fact is what defined Exodus as a world: they didn't like some of ALFA's decisions during the transition to ALFA2 and decided they were going to make another almost-ALFA that ruled differently on those points and structured its government in a different way. In their Biblical reference, ALFA is Egypt-- and I'm frankly baffled that they're wondering why the kids they had in Canaan aren't Egyptian citizens. We have immigration policies, which we offer to everyone and which we know are supported by the structures we work our collective rears off on over here, and those policies should be good enough for everyone.

[Adanu]

The trouble of course is that it wasn't an ALFA server. That very fact is what defined Exodus as a world: they didn't like some of ALFA's decisions during the transition to ALFA2 and decided they were going to make another almost-ALFA that ruled differently on those points and structured its government in a different way.

Yes yes yes... we know it started off as a rebellion. Exodus and ALFA partnered up after those people left. I don't know if you're holding a grudge or just being obstinate for the sake of it, but you're starting to sound like you have an 'axe to grind' and are being bitter about it.

[Lucifer]

by fluffmonster » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:14 pm

Exodus PCs played through the game just like ALFA PCs did. To be ported in gives them nothing special that they did not already earn. Any argument that they might have had it easier in Exodus is utter hypocrisy in the face of the variety of experiences that happens within ALFAs walls already.

This debate seems very churlish. Are we really so venal to think that Amn PCs are so unworthy or disruptive? Are we willing to subject alfa pcs to the same level of scrutiny being leveled here? If we say with any integrity that PCs shape the world, how can we bring in Amn without its PCs?

This +1..what I have been searching tp say but I am much less eloquent.

I have thoroughly enjoyed alfa 80% of the time I've played here..the same can be said for my time on Exodus my biggest dis-satisfaction in both have been dealing with politics especially in reguards to "we are better and/or deserve more because we are alfa/we are Exo. Get off it... both places put RP above level advancement. Both have and Had excellent Chars and Players and DM's..and both had very ethical leaders..and a few people whom wished to put personal goals and feelings above all else. That is the nature of real life always a few exceptional and always a few exceptional egos.

My Vote would be to allow characters to make the transition as long as gear and abilities brought into alfa standards.

[Zelknolf]

Yes yes yes... we know it started off as a rebellion. Exodus and ALFA partnered up after those people left. I don't know if you're holding a grudge or just being obstinate for the sake of it, but you're starting to sound like you have an 'axe to grind' and are being bitter about it.

There is no axe for Exodus. There's one for players telling me to work to support deals ALFA never made-- or who use the work put into a character is used as a rationale to change the deal (I guess I don't work hard on the ruleset? My doom was surely in doing actual work.)

The point (cheerfully right after where you cut off that quote) is that you're asking for a technically dangerous drop of non-ALFA PCs into ALFA to support something that there is no reasonable expectation to support, because Exodus is not ALFA. It never claimed to be ALFA, and held its difference from ALFA as a part of its identity. Coming back now to say "Nono, don't you see! We were just like ALFA the whole time! (now appease us by making these characters in unsupported ways. Don't worry! We'll just do it with a DM and assume that everything will be fine, even though we know it won't be.)" seems unreasonable to me, especially when the deal made over the Amnian server included that there would be no characters copied from the Exodus vault.

[kid]

We are still brining in the server under our rules. we should bring the toons with it... and yes, under our rules. that does not mean taking down X levels off the toon.
It simply means they need to fit our standards...

So we'll check em out (some team or other admin chooses) and if they do, we can bring them in as well. the same as we did with everything on that server.

[oldgrayrogue]

Zelk there seems to be a bit of a disconnect then. I think everyone agrees that a straight import from their vault is out because of tech problems. I think what people are saying is just let them rebuild the player from scratch here under our system. Would that cause a tech nightmare and lots of work for you? if so then i agree that it should not be done. Just not sure if that is the case.

[Adanu]

That is what I would ask if I did a swap for Damien. Essentially a 'remake' of Damien under ALFA. No need for imports beyond one or two items.

[Swift]

If we do this, I want my ALFA1 PC back. I see little difference between bringing PCs from a Non-ALFA project into ALFA2 and bringing existing ALFA PCs from ALFA1 to ALFA2.

After all, they 'played through the game' the same as any other PC did (the game hasn't changed, only the platform) and they didn't 'have it easier'.

But no, we made the decision that, despite the fact that virtually every server that was being worked on already existed in ALFA as a NWN1 server that had its existing plots and characters (and indeed, even now every live server had a NWN1 equivalent), all PCs would be retired and with the new platform we would start with fresh characters and a fresh narrative.

It didn't matter that some people had invested 5+ years into their characters or that some DMs had spent years fleshing out their servers. New servers for ALFA, new characters.

Amn is a new server for ALFA. New characters.

[Zelknolf]

Zelk there seems to be a bit of a disconnect then. I think everyone agrees that a straight import from their vault is out because of tech problems. I think what people are saying is just let them rebuild the player from scratch here under our system. Would that cause a tech nightmare and lots of work for you? if so then i agree that it should not be done. Just not sure if that is the case.

We know that this sort has problems, too-- and that the problems are sneaky cusses that take months (and one time, years) to crop up, with widely variable quantities of work required to patch up the messes we find: and these aren't things that can be neatly handled ahead of time. We could add a bunch onto our logging systems (because we at least know in advance that one breaks), but that's a poor indicator of what will actually go wrong overall (I just cite it because it's more fragile than everything else, and tends to be the thing that we point to after fixing the breakage that prompted us looking in and say "Yup, that's broken too, but we can't fix that one. Just going to have to awkwardly tell the DMs that their tools are wrong and hope they make good decisions anyway.").

[Adanu]

If we do this, I want my ALFA1 PC back. I see little difference between bringing PCs from a Non-ALFA project into ALFA2 and bringing existing ALFA PCs from ALFA1 to ALFA2.

After all, they 'played through the game' the same as any other PC did (the game hasn't changed, only the platform) and they didn't 'have it easier'.

There is a world of difference in terms of time, ruleset, people, engine, and era. Not to mention status. Being petty about an entirely different game doesn't make your logic any better.

[Swift]

If we do this, I want my ALFA1 PC back. I see little difference between bringing PCs from a Non-ALFA project into ALFA2 and bringing existing ALFA PCs from ALFA1 to ALFA2.

After all, they 'played through the game' the same as any other PC did (the game hasn't changed, only the platform) and they didn't 'have it easier'.

There is a world of difference in terms of time, ruleset, people, engine, and era. Not to mention status. Being petty about an entirely different game doesn't make your logic any better.

I dont see any logic in bringing non-ALFA PCs over from Amn, so your logic is not entirely sound to me, either.