The NWN1 platform - changing customs and rules

[Brokenbone]

It'd be premature to "announce" anything that may fail, or anything that would naturally raise implementation questions.

Example: "May start higher than 1st level characters" as an announcement. First natural question is "how high"? Some people say 2nd, others say 5th, others say 15th, still others say a level less than their campaign peers. Ain't sorted.

[JaydeMoon]

I'm not entirely sure how outside input would help.

I am not sure how "I think we should concentrate on sorting this out behind closed doors" and "please don't post about this anywhere outside of ALFA" indicate a 'bossy' tone.

I agree with Zic simply because asking others will only invite you to post what they had to say and I'm not sure that has any bearing on what ALFA should do for ALFA members or how it will be beneifical for our discussion.

However, I think you should feel free to discuss anything with anyone at anytime for your own benefit.

[Nalo Jade]

Sorry about the bossy comment, it just sounded like "bossy" in my head.

Of course my intention would be to post a link to the forum where I posed the questions.

It wouldn't be an announcement of a decision. The idea would be to see what other folks outside of ALFA would have to say.

I must be missing the goal here, Is this movement designed to only improve the "fun" for current NWN1 ALFAns? I thought what potential members think would be just as important...

My hypothesis is that the proposals we are presenting would encourage more people to join up.

The only way we could know that for certain would be to ask. If it tanks, it tanks...none of the "potential" members would get to vote.

[zicada]

I posted a reply like that simply because I'm convinced the other admin agree with me, Nalo. As an admin, I actually am the boss of you, even if you're not on my staff. Since I'm fairly active on the forums lately, I posted rather quickly to make sure nothing we would regret later occured. I know you mean well Nalo, but sometimes you tend to go a bit far with your ideas, heh

I must be missing the goal here, Is this movement designed to only improve the "fun" for current NWN1 ALFAns? I thought what potential members think would be just as important...

My hypothesis is that the proposals we are presenting would encourage more people to join up.

That is another thing entirely, and definitely part of the plan as far as I'm concerned.

[Nalo Jade]

Me?! Go to far with an idea?!!

Nevuh.

Anyone want to talk about Global DMs while we're here?

[edoteded]

I actually am the boss of you

oh and ... nope

[mr duncan]

The last thing we want is to separate NWN1 and NWN2 within ALFA. The arguments for some of the proposed changes to NWN1 would quite possibly work just as well for NWN2, and by making these changes global, we include everyone.

This is the part I didnt want to see. I hoped/reasoned that as a nwn2 player that I wouldnt be needed for comment on this thread but if the changes being talked about here are going to be opened up for global alfa... no way.

Never.

No multiple PCs, no advanced start for anyone, and no DMs playing on their server. None.

I could care less how the NWN1 people make their fun. Its their game, if they want to take it away from ALFA standards, fine, but dont assume to impose that on the rest us. If NWN1 ALFA is to change into its own beast... maybe nalos "hints not threats" that there could be a seperation is a GOOD idea... because opening these changes up for ALFA isnt a good idea at all and I find myself wanting as much seperation from the ideas in this thread as possible.

Id like to be an A LAND FAR FAR FAR AWAY from multiiple PCS, DMs playing on their own server, and 2nd+ starting level. You can get that crap on a dozen other servers, with the RP to match. I chose ALFA BECAUSE of the environment we are debating ending now.

This thread went from a good idea to keep NWN1 floating, to another lame dead horse thread the moment it went beyond the world of nwn1. I think someone mentioned being opposed to these ideas because they would eventually be considered for nwn2.


J

[zicada]

The last thing we want is to separate NWN1 and NWN2 within ALFA. The arguments for some of the proposed changes to NWN1 would quite possibly work just as well for NWN2, and by making these changes global, we include everyone.

This is the part I didnt want to see. I hoped/reasoned that as a nwn2 player that I wouldnt be needed for comment on this thread but if the changes being talked about here are going to be opened up for global alfa... no way.

Never.

No multiple PCs, no advanced start for anyone, and no DMs playing on their server. None.

I could care less how the NWN1 people make their fun. Its their game, if they want to take it away from ALFA standards, fine, but dont assume to impose that on the rest us. If NWN1 ALFA is to change into its own beast... maybe nalos "hints not threats" that there could be a seperation is a GOOD idea... because opening these changes up for ALFA isnt a good idea at all and I find myself wanting as much seperation from the ideas in this thread as possible.

Id like to be an A LAND FAR FAR FAR AWAY from multiiple PCS, DMs playing on their own server, and 2nd+ starting level. You can get that crap on a dozen other servers, with the RP to match. I chose ALFA BECAUSE of the environment we are debating ending now.

This thread went from a good idea to keep NWN1 floating, to another lame dead horse thread the moment it went beyond the world of nwn1. I think someone mentioned being opposed to these ideas because they would eventually be considered for nwn2.


J

Well, that is honestly the only way I can see this happening. It's either:

A. Change the rules for all of ALFA

B. Make NWN1 a side-attraction that has nothing to do with ALFA other than a once a week campaign thing for the specifically interested. (WILL cause tons of drama and complaints)

C. Split NWN1 away from ALFA all together.


Those really are the options IMO. It sucks, but there it is.

Flame away!

[Nalo Jade]

-snip- maybe nalos "hints not threats" that there could be a seperation is a GOOD idea... -snip-

Just in case a separation actually does occur, and to prevent this statement from being interpreted as Nalo is the reason NWN1 ALFA separated...Does anyone really think I have that much influence, it is rare thing for me to be taken seriously with anything I post.

This division between NWN1 and NWN2 was in existence before I left ALFA in 2004/5 before the game was even released. Discussion of NWN1 leaving ALFA was occuring before my recent return...though I didn't know it at the time.

NWN1 is hardly "floating". True, ALFAs version is, we should take a hard look at why that is. I suspect, if we "stay the course" with NWN2 ... then history shall repeat itself. Though NWN2 has already stifled out the gate, where was ALFA at with number of servers 2 years after the release of NWN1?

Why would I keep the Campaign here if I had a choice that allowed my players to have a second character they could play between sessions, and if one kicks the bucket or I have a new player wanting to join a now 8th level campaign...why would I stay in the place where I am so restricted / not trusted?

The goal is for us to have fun... these rules do not support fun...they hinder it.

[mr duncan]

A. Change the rules for all of ALFA

A is not an option. This is why I spoke up in a thread that hadnt otherwise concerned me till the last page.

B. Make NWN1 a side-attraction that has nothing to do with ALFA other than a once a week campaign thing for the specifically interested. (WILL cause tons of drama and complaints)

B- This seems like what its being made into already. When we have "ALFA standards" and an "ALFA game" that dosnt match them... it IS a sideshow. No one has to MAKE it one, as you say... its being made into one right now.

It will NOT cause complaints, the people WANTING to play nwn1 ARE the people wanting to make it into something besides ALFA standards. Let them do so.

However, dragging nwn2 into this thread... THATS gonna cause some complaints.

C. Split NWN1 away from ALFA all together.

Worse things have happened in the passage of history. Two related clubs (maybe even with links to one anothers websites) are not a bad idea. Nalo admitted he has caught whispers about just such a thing happening. I say let it happen, but make sure do so in a friendly, adult, manner.

Give them the mods, the vault, and anything else we have that they need if they chose this option.

Those really are the options IMO. It sucks, but there it is.

Not exactly. A is not an option, B is already happening, C is the only actual option.



J

[zicada]

B- This seems like what its being made into already. When we have "ALFA standards" and an "ALFA game" that dosnt match them... it IS a sideshow. No one has to MAKE it one, as you say... its being made into one right now.

It will NOT cause complaints, the people WANTING to play nwn1 ARE the people wanting to make it into something besides ALFA standards. Let them do so.

However, dragging nwn2 into this thread... THATS gonna cause some complaints.

Well, the thing about that, is that I for one will not vote for keeping NWN1 as an integral part of ALFA and at the same time running it by completely different rules. It will just cause too much crap.

So yeah, I am starting to lean more towards C as well at this point. Of course the ultimate would be for all the NWN1 players and DMs to actually adopt NWN2 and 'get with the program' as it were. I'm sure I'm going to get my head flamed off now, but that is honestly how I feel about this.

[NickD]

This is the part I didnt want to see. I hoped/reasoned that as a nwn2 player that I wouldnt be needed for comment on this thread but if the changes being talked about here are going to be opened up for global alfa... no way.

Never.

No multiple PCs, no advanced start for anyone, and no DMs playing on their server. None.

For NWN2, I concur.

[Brokenbone]

Keeping it a NWN1 discussion only probably makes best sense.

If "voters" or whatever you want to call it (I disagree much of anyone other than DMA & PA, and affected HDMs have a role under the Charter for this) want to vote while at the same time explaining NWN2 was an influence for their vote, cool, it's an explanation. Doesn't make their vote count any more than any other.

I see great potential for drama getting this into "oh no this should never happen in NWN2" or "oh wow once it happens it should apply to NWN2." Why bother unless looking for drama? Sideshow comments and whatnot, especially when the bigger, healthier platform is being given that label, seem unhelpful.

Start a "should we do all this stuff for NWN2" thread, if it makes people feel better. Everyone will have a ball...

[zicada]

Lets just get this out of the way then:

NWN 1 Guys:

How do you feel about splitting away from ALFA, and getting your own website and forums. Make up your own rules, and pretty much start a new PW for NWN1 ?

I would also love to figure out exactly what it is about NWN2 that makes you all not want to switch. Imagine how much better it would be if we had all you guys helping out too!

[Nalo Jade]

If the couple folks representing NWN2 represent the majority of NWN2...

If the couple dozen folks representing NWN1 represent the majority of NWN1...

If a majority of ALFAns agree with Zic and I that, further separation of NWN1 and NWN2 would be bad...

Then sadly it appears there is already a divide so great that it seems impossible to bridge.

I hope this thread changes its tone, and someone can come up with a compromise...

I would rather see the change to rules for NWN1 only and let us remain a complete community.

@ Zic's "get with the program comment" Send me a PC & Video Card that can run NWN2 and fix the platform so it works as well as NWN1 and I will gladly abandon the better platform in favor of your shiny "new" thing. ( Delivered faux flame as requested...please take it as the "jest" it was meant to be. ) And actually I already had a very very cool member send me a video card ... unfortunately it was not enough... thanks again for going way above and beyond the call anonomys ALFAn video card sender guy. The card and gesture are still greatly appreciated!

[Ksiel]

Please don't let this thread turn into a list of angry bashing posts.

I think we are making some decent progress here. As stated to me early on in this thread, baby steps... so with that in mind, let us keep it focused only on NWN1.

If we take the angle that this is going to be tested only in NWN1 and we already have a server volunteer to test it, what is the next step? Admin meet and make a vote?

If you find yourself getting aggravated, don't post for a few hours and give others that are not able to check the thread as quick as some a chance. It will keep tensions down.