Player application and member recommendations

[wvincenti]

Like Xerxes mentioned in his thread last week (see below), I've got some gaming friends and know some folks in other projects who are intrigued by ALFA, but who are put off by the application process. I'll bet most of you do too. Can we please give some serious consideration to letting folks in with a simple recommendation from a current member?

It would be wonderful to see the servers start filling up again.

Player Shortage

Please stay on topic folks, discuss retention and other bits of drama elsewhere.

Thanks,
-Bill

[Veilan]

Mhm... a recommendation should not be the sole arbiter of membership in ALFA. The implications have too much wormcans among them. Would be nice if it fast-tracked an app-process or something, though.

I'm fairly certain that when on a app it mentions "btw. wvincetti recommended me", it's going to be a boost already anyway.

[dergon darkhelm]

As I said when I posted before on this topic I am *now* in favor.

Originally I thought it would open a can of worms. It might. But now I think we need people. For friends who are ambivialent or only minimally interested in ALFA the app can be impediment.

If we want to have a player census of 12+ on multiple servers (which I do) then we need to open the gates a bit.

just my 2 cents

dergon

[Nalo Jade]

NWN1 does not need players ... we need DMs. imo.

NWN2 needs servers + DMs.

Maybe we fix those first give it a month then revisit the application process.

I would say they still need to fill out an app, honestly it doesn't take that long...but if a current member sends a PM to the PA with a recommendation then it should be auto approval unless something horrible is in the written app.

[zicada]

Good idea.

We're gonna have an admin meeting very soon hopefully, will take it up there.

We are working on apps for the new website, so we can easily add this functionality.

Im thinking a form current users fill out, with an email adress to the person they would like to recommend. The prospective user then gets an email with a link where they can go and type in their details. Once thats done, they end up in the accept/reject queue with aditional info that they were recommended by $nick

Not every member needs to be given the ability to invite others either. We can hand out invites based on criteria.
Lets say MemberA invites NoobB, and NoobB ends up doing something naughty, then MemberA gets a slap on the wrist aswell, since he/she clearly didn't think things through when they invited in the first place. This way we take care of the 'we only want serious players' issue, and still make it easier for us to get new people in.

(For those of you who use private torrent trackers, this is pretty much the setup they use)

Do want.

[danielmn]

*clears throat*

For those unfamiliar/less familiar with the application/oas processes these past few years, recommendations have always been taken into account. They've never been the sole entryway into the community...and personally, I don't think they should be. Common...it doesn't take that long to fill out the bio (something you NEED to do anyway for the dms) and answer the three or four questions and the one situational question. It's not a taxing or time consuming process. And from what I gather these days, there is extremely quick turnaround on apps, so not too much waiting. If they don't want to do an app, have them schedule an oas appointment. An hour or two with an oas dm + recommendation = good to go in my book if everything is ok. The process we have now is not a difficult process for those truly interested. Just 2 cents from a guy who was involved with admissions for over 2 yrs.

[zicada]

*clears throat*

For those unfamiliar/less familiar with the application/oas processes these past few years, recommendations have always been taken into account. They've never been the sole entryway into the community...and personally, I don't think they should be. Common...it doesn't take that long to fill out the bio (something you NEED to do anyway for the dms) and answer the three or four questions and the one situational question. It's not a taxing or time consuming process. And from what I gather these days, there is extremely quick turnaround on apps, so not too much waiting. If they don't want to do an app, have them schedule an oas appointment. An hour or two with an oas dm + recommendation = good to go in my book if everything is ok. The process we have now is not a difficult process for those truly interested. Just 2 cents from a guy who was involved with admissions for over 2 yrs.

Hm, good points.

Still though, I am basically for doing anything we can to get more people in. Let's keep going with this. Maybe some more ideas will come up.

[Hughes]

The process we have now is not a difficult process for those truly interested. Just 2 cents from a guy who was involved with admissions for over 2 yrs.

I have a good friend who, though a good player, is one of those people that agonizes over writing things, and is a profound procrastinator and perfectionist. He's been stuck on that app for 3 weeks.

Obviously the admissions process has admitted many good people, the problem is, it's impossible to know how many otherwise good players it has prevented from joining.

If you guys have more NWN2 players as a priority - and by the Hells I think you should, there's like... what, ten? fifteen? - then that process needs to be about a thousand times easier.

I'd even go so far as to say open it completely, take off the password, then make an app/bio necessary if you want to leave the starting area and/or reach level 2.

Basically, make the OAS server an area inside TSM.

[Zelknolf]

I have a good friend who, though a good player, is one of those people that agonizes over writing things, and is a profound procrastinator and perfectionist. He's been stuck on that app for 3 weeks.

Obviously the admissions process has admitted many good people, the problem is, it's impossible to know how many otherwise good players it has prevented from joining.

If you guys have more NWN2 players as a priority - and by the Hells I think you should, there's like... what, ten? fifteen? - then that process needs to be about a thousand times easier.

I'd even go so far as to say open it completely, take off the password, then make an app/bio necessary if you want to leave the starting area and/or reach level 2.

Basically, make the OAS server an area inside TSM.

I don't think anyone in ALFA is trying to create a WoW-style MMO. If we were, we'd have vast quantities of simple content with gradually increasing rewards for simple participation (the method of creating that "addictive" game... it's actually a simple enough process.) Being able to assemble groups of 10 is a pretty nifty thing for D&D, imo.


In response to Nalo, I would think that NWN1 needs both; our player groups are small and I hear complaints from them wishing they could play more often than they do. I would think we're in more need of active story DMs than players, because our DM ranks are becoming an issue in terms of player retention, but eh... I think it's clear that we've lost the critical number of active players it takes to call ALFA1 a persistent world some time ago.

[Nalo Jade]

*nods*

I'm just saying if we had an influx of players right now ... we wouldn't have the coverage to make them feel like they were part of a "live" world.

Your right, we could use more players to have the PW feel vs the campaign servers that we seem to have now...but we need the DMs first.

From what I have seen in my little exploration of NWConnections I think it will be easier for NWN1 to get players and DMs at the moment ... NWN2 is still having growing pains, not just ALFA, other RP PnP style communities are echoing the difficulties our builders have expressed with the new platform.

She's a pretty new toy for sure, but its kinda the diff between working on a 1980's car and trying to work on a 2000's vehicle ... or so I have been told.

Not knocking the 2 ... just saying they are in need of more assistance than 1... in regards to Apps and retention.

adding the OAS2 to TSM wouldn't really change anything if their aren't enough NWN2 DMs to mentor them.

adding a member recommendation + brief written app = auto acceptance ... may be nice but I wouldn't expect a sudden surge of players and DMs as a result.

adding NWN2 "events" on sites like NWConnections ... and Bioware guilds ect ... I think you would see more "results" from that... but I think adding in that we are looking for DMs would be just as helpful.

[wvincenti]

Thanks for taking it up at the Admin level Zic.

I'm in complete agreement with Zelk on this point.
Yeah, it's healthy for me to get out more, but I miss being able to find mischief or conversation in game with other folks at almost any time. Scheduled times with DMs were always secondary for me.

How about letting referred folks in for a probationary period?
(3-6 months perhaps?) If they prove good citizens Amen, if not off they go. At least in the meantime we'll start seeing some traffic in game. Heck, folks survived my noobishness when I first joined and helped me improve my RP while in game. (Thanks Orcpaladin, Wild Wombat, Fionn, Mikayla ... the list is long.) It's a game, not admissions to Harvard, and I'm willing to deal with a wide variety of play styles. I'll even help mentor in game as best I can. As part of the very unofficial welcome wagon on Shadowdale for um ... years

As a Player I don't run out of ideas easily and I ran pretty dry this past Summer. More PCs to talk to in game means more opportunity for inspiration of all sorts.

-Bill

In response to Nalo, I would think that NWN1 needs both; our player groups are small and I hear complaints from them wishing they could play more often than they do. I would think we're in more need of active story DMs than players, because our DM ranks are becoming an issue in terms of player retention, but eh... I think it's clear that we've lost the critical number of active players it takes to call ALFA1 a persistent world some time ago.

[Zelknolf]

How about letting referred folks in for a probationary period? (3-6 months perhaps?) If they prove good citizens Amen, if not off they go. At least in the meantime we'll start seeing some traffic in game.

I would express my agreement here. I would probably give a shorter probationary period, or measure it by DMed sessions (1 - 2 months or 4-5 DMed sessions? tbh, if we get players who don't cheat and don't use leetspeak, they tend to be interested enough in RP to get damn good at it, with time.) and insist that a player who got in by a reccomendation play with the reccomender (if you can reccomend 'em, you can show 'em the ropes.) for that period, but the idea, in general, of a probationary membership instead of a "testing server" is very appealing to me.

I would respond to Danielmn's comment on the application in that, while a player is indeed expected to be able to answer those questions, we don't expect them to answer those questions before rolling the character up, and we tend to not even put much pressure for a bio until a character gains a level (I ask for a personality and a primary goal. I'll settle with "He's a jerk who wants to make money" until there're enough hit points there to not lose the guy to a stray arrow.) -- I would say that play time in the mean time is important to developing a good bio, and gives a player a chance to see how things play out and gives room to wiggle into a niche in any other groups before setting anything in stone.

Definately with Zic on the notion of putting something to prevent someone from giving a bunch of bad reccomendations. Mebbe a "if we have to boot your reccomendation, you can't bring someone else in for <timeframe>." or somesuch.

[zicada]

How about letting referred folks in for a probationary period? (3-6 months perhaps?) If they prove good citizens Amen, if not off they go. At least in the meantime we'll start seeing some traffic in game.

I would express my agreement here. I would probably give a shorter probationary period, or measure it by DMed sessions (1 - 2 months or 4-5 DMed sessions? tbh, if we get players who don't cheat and don't use leetspeak, they tend to be interested enough in RP to get damn good at it, with time.) and insist that a player who got in by a reccomendation play with the reccomender (if you can reccomend 'em, you can show 'em the ropes.) for that period, but the idea, in general, of a probationary membership instead of a "testing server" is very appealing to me.

I would respond to Danielmn's comment on the application in that, while a player is indeed expected to be able to answer those questions, we don't expect them to answer those questions before rolling the character up, and we tend to not even put much pressure for a bio until a character gains a level (I ask for a personality and a primary goal. I'll settle with "He's a jerk who wants to make money" until there're enough hit points there to not lose the guy to a stray arrow.) -- I would say that play time in the mean time is important to developing a good bio, and gives a player a chance to see how things play out and gives room to wiggle into a niche in any other groups before setting anything in stone.

Definately with Zic on the notion of putting something to prevent someone from giving a bunch of bad reccomendations. Mebbe a "if we have to boot your reccomendation, you can't bring someone else in for <timeframe>." or somesuch.

I was actually thinking even harsher. Something like, "if your invitee gets booted or otherwise misbehaves horribly, you get, say 2 weeks ban". The harsher the penalty, the fewer invitees, but the higher the quality of said invitees. Im sure with some discussion and thinking back and fourth we can come up with a balance we can all agree on.

[Nalo Jade]

Balance ... if the penalty is extreme, it will be less likely to be enforced...I would suggest removal of rights to auto-accept recommend be permanently removed...sounds harsh but really, it doesn't preclude you from making a recommendation ... just doesn't carry the auto accept feature anymore.

2 week ban because your buddy is a jacktard seems harsher to me than no more auto accept feature. Kinda takes you off the hook with your buddies as well..

"sorry man I can't get you approved automatically by buddy jerkfacecheeseburger IV screwed that up for me."

[Nalo Jade]

Also make it simple ... no probation period ... no required DM sessions ... no mandatory friend mentor program ...

Just turn em loose, if the member that recommended them did a bad job they will lose their ability to recommend people and that person gets banned if their offense warrants it.

Give them all the rope they need to hang themselves, and punish those who violate the trust.