ALFA PG-13 or 18+ ?

[Hialmar]

I think we can vote on this now.

[Veilan]

Other:

PG13 with 18+ possibility / hollyfant's "fade to black" option or something similar.

I do not want 18+ to be a free pass for people to communicate sick, graphical violence or adult content without prior consent to public channels or unwilling participants. Just because I am over 18 does not mean I want to have to always read the stuff.

So in short: PG13, 18+ for consenting parties using private means of communication.

Cheers,

[I-KP]

Other. Adult themes possible.

18+ may send out the wrong message; we're all adults these days but such carte blanche may lead to a gradual errosion of ALFA's reputation. I'm no prude but there are specific servers out there that cater for X-rated stuff, thus players primarily interested in that style of play rather than the ALFAn staple of 'adventure first' should probably seek to exercise those urges on one of those 'social' servers instead; stay here for the high adventure then go there for the how's your father after show party - or whatever.

[Adanu]

I-KP, this assumes everyone here *wants* to do that all the time. The only way this would 'erode' anything is if it becomes a major issue and the admins/DMs do nothing about it.

This mentality of screaming "ABUSE!" with every possible change is a bit disheartening.

[hollyfant]

How about we just drop any pretence of being PG13, and leave it at that? "Unrated" works just as well as 18+, but doesn't have the (im)mature connotations.

[I-KP]

I-KP, this assumes everyone here *wants* to do that all the time. The only way this would 'erode' anything is if it becomes a major issue and the admins/DMs do nothing about it.

It only takes one person (but more likely two *w*) to be pulled up for going too far and them throwing back the, "it says 18+ on the front so I thought it was okay," to make a mockery of the effort.

This mentality of screaming "ABUSE!" with every possible change is a bit disheartening.

No-one is screaming anything. All I'm advocating is a qualifier to the "18+" badge that explicitly details where the lines are drawn; anything less will only result in headaches and grief further down the line. "18+" alone won't cut the mustard if a dozen implied limits are kept in mind (of the Admins) but not explained.

ALFA has never been PG-13; certainly not in my experience of it anyway. If anything this seems to be an exercise in putting a definition on the way the game is already being played, nothing more. Fair enough. Fill your boots why not. No FUD to be found here.

EDIT:-

How about we just drop any pretence of being PG13, and leave it at that? "Unrated" works just as well as 18+, but doesn't have the (im)mature connotations.

QFT

[CloudDancing]

Give us some consistent thoughtful DMs and some long term campaigns that leave players talking about it and THINKING about what to do!

Give us professions we can RP through and crafting!

Give us people who can roleplay a full-spectrum character, not just a 1 dimensional reproduction of themselves but better!

Give us RP with natural progressions, thresholds, and cultural norms!

(there is alot of give here mind you)

...and I don't think the element or theme of the plot will be an issue in regards to 18+. Sex and violence is a consequence and it is a condiment to writing as is action. All elements of good plotlines.

In return we can give DMs responsive characters that use our skills. We can CHANGE our characters over time. We are not here provide adult content or ask a DM ever do so. We are here to provide natural roleplaying characters that move with their background. Our constant quest is to ask "What would MY character with HER background and alignments DO in this Situation?" And a DM/PC in relation to that character should be asking; "What would MY character DO to interact with another person in their world whether dealing with a DM or not?"

IF the work is NOT done, if the relationship is not explored through layers of natural thresholds and the character TAKEN at face value through the use of die, you better think twice before you cross natural boundaries of culture and gender.

We talk about 18 content? I haven't seen a plot with 18 content ever run by a DM here. It's all smoke and mirrors. Ive seen vauge attempts to allure characters to intiate out of character ERP (and wtf was with that?) When I see vauge I mean blatant maudlin attempts to be either gross or sensual to show how hard core a Dm was and so forth in a manner which added nothing to the plot and made me give pause to if I should just log out if that was ALL my character was to them.

The closest I ever got as a DM broke the "pretty perfect princess" perception of two players and caused them to shut down on me because they could not handle a "no win situation" and RPing though a serious scary primetime TV level situations. And the results from my experiements burned me in so many ways, I decided that Alfa players or DMs on my server could'nt handle 18+ RP.

Ill edit this more later..because I still voted the opposite because I have read Ed Greenwood and many of the sourcebooks and I go with their content first and foremost.

[Blindhamsterman]

I'd agree with holly, unrated makes the most sense.

PG-13, has never been the case in ALFA, theres always been adult themese floating about, from NWN1 days right up till now. It may be that it's noticed more now due to the smaller userbase, but it's always been there.

Equally, 18+ likely isn't correct either, as not everyone plays as such and it's enough to put some folk off.

As for clouds post, lots of things you'd like to see there aye? (though admittedly it all would be desirable stuff)

[NESchampion]

Equally, 18+ likely isn't correct either, as not everyone plays as such and it's enough to put some folk off.

I think it's important to note that "18+" doesn't mean that all interactions must be 18+ or even that people cannot abstain from interactions they find uncomfortable by simply saying so.

[Blindhamsterman]

Agreed, but it doesn't mean there wont be some folk that are put off. Just as there are some DMs that would rather not have to see anything of the 18+ variety, there will of course be others that will.

Hense my vote in the Unrated category. Specifying as either is untrue and likely not sensible.

[Xanthea]

PG-13. Not because I'm some sort of moral crusader or think adult situations are always inappropriate, but because of the expectations it raises.

I don't mind if people want to run around cybering each other or if a DM wants to roleplay the forbidden love affair between a Selunite and a werewolf. But it should be very clear that these things are not what the server is supposed to be about and that anyone instigating any of this had better be damn sure that anyone else involved is really into that sort of thing.

I feel that rating the server 18+ shifts expectations from "I better be sure that this guy appreciates this situation before I do anything" to "You don't like it? Well the server's rated 18+ so you were warned, suck it." It doesn't have to be the case and it's entirely possible that everyone involved would handle the 18+ tag with good taste and discretion, but rating the server 18+ conjures these images all the same, even if there's no truth behind them. I would be wary about even trying a server with an 18+ tag because I don't know exactly what that 18+ tag refers to.

There have been some pretty creepy people on ALFA and the internet in general so I feel this sort of protection is called for. A clear guideline that says that you better watch yourself if engaging in anything like this.

And yes, making the server unrated could work as well, but I feel PG-13 says it much more strongly.

[Brokenbone]

I think I share some of Xanthea's reservations (it says 18+, suck it!)

Some kind of unrated biz, with an explanation of what mutual respect entails, tolerance for harassment hopefully being about zero, this not being a license to skeeve people out, the fact that hosts keep logs of everything to cover their asses, etc. would be recommended. The internet never forgets anything, if you want to type something you'd be ashamed to have become public, for god's sake, take it easy, take a cold shower, and come back later.

[Castano]

It will never be a free pass to communicate stuff that offends others. ALFA has RP rules, one of which is that both players must consent to mature themes. This poll is ablout whether we ALLOW mature themes.

If you vote PG-13 I will enforce it on everyone, even consenting players.

[Castano]

sorry to double post,

but I would rather we state:

"ALFA games may contain mature themes (violence, sexuality etc.) as part of their plotlines. All players must be over over the age of 18. As always, players are not required to particiapte in RP they find offensive or are uncomfortable with."

I think a pure 18+ doesn't explain ALFA's position. What we want to avoid is having kids sign up to RP out mature themes. I know in the past ALFA stated it was PG-13. That was not correct IMO.

[Castano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness

First DnD book to carry a mature label....