Probably get locked, but oh well

[maxcell]

I'm lazy so I won't post in the multiple threads. The coming PA election has several volunteers (thank you) for the position. Their platforms are posted and fairly easy to understand imo. Some have prodded and dug in the q & a threads to, what seems to me, get an answer on things they haven't seen in a candidates platform but they wish they would say.
I saw this coming since January quite frankly. There is a clear division in the the underlying drive in the the candidates.
One side believes in hardcore, old school rp game that has allowed Alfa to continue long after it should have and others have become defunct.
The other side, whether they care to admit it, was drawn to Alfa because of those strengths that are at our core, but when they found they could not cut corners or bend the rules and got reprimanded for their actions, they got mad, and decided the best way to change what they didn't like was to take a position of authority in the matter. Great, that is what the democratic process is for.
Truth is, some don't think farming and power-gaming is a big deal and wish Alfa wasn't so bureaucratic and hung up on such nonsense and just let everyone have fun regardless of how their character got to level ba-jillion in 2 months. Oh, and also stop being so mean! boo. hoo.
Anarchy doesn't work, structure works. Rules, boundaries, work. It's how society works, how school works, your job works, why you have food, clothes, a place to live, etc... All our past PA did was exercise the position to enforce existing rules, because as I am, I believe he was quite frankly sick of seeing it going on. (don't want to speak for him, as these are what the voices in my head are telling me)

Do I think we need a hardcoded fix to the problem? No, but I understand that people just want it to be stopped or controlled, so I don't begrudge them the idea. In Alfa, we used to police this kind of problem largely within the player base. We used to let people know to shut doors, not run, how to emote etc. It can't all fall into the DM lap, they have enough to do. Of course as a past OAS hdm I do think that it never should have left, since it at least served a purpose of one on one DM interaction, instruction, and correction before entering the main world, RP101 usually ran their too.


As always, feel free to ignore my rant. Don't care. Not really the point to change anyone's mind actually.

oh, and email me your KEMO portrait so people can see what you think your character looks like

[I-KP]

oh, and email me your KEMO portrait so people can see what your character thinks they look like

Corrected that for you.

As you were.

[Heero]

You are always such a Debbie Downer.

[Adanu]

Apparently, some people think systeming away' farming' is a good idea. It's almost as bad an idea as curving RP-XP and telling people to log in less, but some think it's a good idea.

Until clear and non subjective 'rates' of using statics are put in that take into account IC motivation and jobs., it's a really bad idea to do something like that, IMO.

[Castano]

If you set bars high enough it works. You should not be on a constant grind of xp/gp no matter what your IC motivation is. That sounds suspiciously like building a PC concept that is ICly tailored to earn loads of xp/gp

We had people zoom thru our servers, farm the spawns and run all the statics in a few weeks (MS is in the process of eliminating yet more farm-able areas because people would log in and clear the server of it's harder content over and over and over - so get those 100 xp per kill while they last people).

This is not a contest btwn "hardcore" and "new people" (which is a statement of old members vs new members & clique fighting and why this community earned the reputation it has).

Dimrets is coming and it's been proposed by multiple admin, tech, and DMs - whether foam, dan or zelk build it the impact will be the same. You hardcore folks forget we had dimrets in NWN1 for years????

Players can ICly combat ALL they want, they just won't get the kill rewards. Hey, if you are on MS barbarian outlaw number 1000 do you really need XP for it - you have proven yourself an unstoppable opponent - perhaps the tribe runs away when they see you? If you've cleared the castle of skulls dungeon for the 9th time is it really a challenge for your PC?

Maybe we don't have enough content for the high levels and need to spawn in hordes of dragons? Or maybe we need to level cap at 8 or so to fit the content we do have. Or maybe people need to retire their super builds.

[t-ice]

Interesting analysis. Please do share which of the candidates you think fall to the pro-rp, and which to the pro-powergaming side, of this clear division of yours.

My own little analysis of a division is more about how do we enforce our farming/powergaming rules: By automated scripts, or by a manpower -run police/persecution/judge system. I doubt the existence of such rules is in question, and probably even the numbers where people think boundaries should fall are not varying by that much. You might think it's 40 and I might think it's 60, but really, that's no earth-shattering difference. It seems like a no-brainer to me that we need both human assessment and scripted assistance, and also that we need to rely as heavy as possible on the scripts, as XP docked by scripts don't cause all the drama and hurt feelings and drain of manpower that each persecution case does.

Anarchy doesn't work, structure works. Rules, boundaries, work.

Agreed. Which is odd that you seem to use this to argue that our current rules with vague (and poorly documented) boundaries should just be policed more. Boundaries work only if people know where they are. Rules that are based on gut feelings of some people assessing the RP of other people hardly work - except for the (real or perceived) friends of those who do the assessing.

In Alfa, we used to police this kind of problem largely within the player base. We used to let people know to shut doors, not run, how to emote etc.

But none of the things you mention reward a PC for behaving badly. Static content currently does, and it does so massively. So for every bit some players might try to educate others on how to behave regarding static content, the response from our game hammers into our players to "grind, grind, grind, and you will flourish!". And this lesson is very true in our game, else we wouldn't be having this discussion. As soon as the rewards for bad behavior are removed (or even clearly mitigated), self-policing by the playerbase educating each other becomes easy.

[t-ice]

Until clear and non subjective 'rates' of using statics are put in that take into account IC motivation and jobs., it's a really bad idea to do something like that, IMO.

"IC motivation and jobs" shouldn't have anything to do with XP you get. If you are ICly a soldier who patrols dangerous areas and wipes out all the dangerous (to the commoners but not to you) critters to swoon all the local ladies, then great, do that. But there's no reason why you should get more XP per gaming time invested for it than the bard who sings in the tavern to swoon the same.

[Adanu]

Until clear and non subjective 'rates' of using statics are put in that take into account IC motivation and jobs., it's a really bad idea to do something like that, IMO.

"IC motivation and jobs" shouldn't have anything to do with XP you get. If you are ICly a soldier who patrols dangerous areas and wipes out all the dangerous (to the commoners but not to you) critters to swoon all the local ladies, then great, do that. But there's no reason why you should get more XP per gaming time invested for it than the bard who sings in the tavern to swoon the same.

You're missing the point. A soldier who is supposed to go on regular patrols can and should get more combat xp from DM and statics than then bard who sits in the tavern and sings. Just like the bard should get XP for singing. It should have to do with it. If you think it shouldn't, you're missing the reason why I have reservations about this sort of system. Namely, that some people have IC motivations to do things that others do not. A great example would be the thing on Exodus with Damien and the Snakewood spiders. He has IC motivation to do what he did, but no one but you bothered to think of that motivation would be.

[Castano]

Adanu,

there's no risk for some of the builds out there when it comes to static content. IMO I would reward zero or near zero for such encounters as a DM.

[Adanu]

Adanu,

there's no risk for some of the builds out there when it comes to static content. IMO I would reward zero or near zero for such encounters as a DM.

Since when was XP solely about risk? It's a factor, sure, but telling me that Zyrus should not get XP for fighting Ogres because they aren't a challenge to him is ridiculous.

[Dorn]

Oh if something's no challenge then i dont think exp should be rewarded. Or maybe like 1 exp which i htink is how dimrets worked back in alfa1, which was fine.

Think about it. "Experience" points. It stands to reason that you learn more from a 'new experience' than something you do all the time.

I would get substantially better between my first and third time driving a car.
But if i brush my teeth again today i wont get much better at it.

No dimrets are sound.
I'd like them bolstered with additional random spawns for 'hard' spawns. "Oh dear, two giants just arrived behind me that weren't here last time i hit this spawn"!!
But that's just me.

Actually, this is kinda off topic...sorry heh

[kid]

No risk XP is called RPXP and you get plenty of it by just playing.
I dont have a good solution either, but I think the exiting PA was trying to work on something that hopefuly will help, though im not sure about the details.

Either way.... You promised this will be locked Max.

[Adanu]

Oh if something's no challenge then i dont think exp should be rewarded. Or maybe like 1 exp which i htink is how dimrets worked back in alfa1, which was fine.

Think about it. "Experience" points. It stands to reason that you learn more from a 'new experience' than something you do all the time.

You can learn new ways to deal with an existing problem.

Less XP is fine. No XP? Come on now.

[FoamBats4All]

"My Spirit of ALFA is better than your Spirit of ALFA and zomg all of u are teh wrongz." -- ALFA

One side believes in hardcore, old school rp game that has allowed Alfa to continue long after it should have and others have become defunct.

The other side, whether they care to admit it, was drawn to Alfa because of those strengths that are at our core, but when they found they could not cut corners or bend the rules and got reprimanded for their actions, they got mad, and decided the best way to change what they didn't like was to take a position of authority in the matter.

Thank you for an entire thread dedicated to a personal attack on unfounded beliefs. I'm glad that you see it either as "hardcore survival of ALFA" vs. "put the powergamer in charge".

I encourage you (and everyone) to actually read my PA thread and at least attempt to inform yourself before trying to rabble-raise.

[Swift]

You can learn new ways to deal with an existing problem.

You certainly can, but PCs built to be good in combat...don't. Generally, once they get to a level where the strategy of "I bash it in the face so hard its head explodes" becomes viable, that is the strategy they work on for almost all combat encounters after that (generally excluding DM encounters).

Why? Because our AI isn't (and likely never will be) good enough to make strategy in static encounters needed. When the most efficient way of killing something is bashing it in the face, there is no incentive to do anything else. When you are at the stage of bashing your 100th orc in the face, you aren't learning how to deal with a problem a different way, you are dealing with it exactly the same way as the 99 orcs that came before it. If experience is about reflecting that your character is learning and improving, I am not sure that really qualifies

Now I stress this only really applies to static, non-DM combat, because DMs do have some tools to ensure combat can require more strategy than that.