Sicko

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:24 pm

MorbidKate wrote:
Danubus wrote:Our health care system totally sucks here in the US. It would be nice to get free health care like those in Canada do, but then you would also get crappy doctors and subpar care. Personally, as someone who has had enough stuff done to him the past 6 yrs I just wish health care was less expensive. My health care provider, IMO, is one of the best, though. They pay for almost everything Ive ever had to get done. A lot of other providers try their best to weasel out of paying for tests, drugs, etc.

As for Moore himself...I seriously hope the government comes down on his ass for the scenes he did in Cuba. He wasnt allowed to travel there, yet he did anyway. Right now, the US government is considering hauling his ass up on charges and i hope they do.
I'm not a huge fan of Michael Moore either but I thought the movie was good for sparking discussion and debate about the fundamental goals of profit based private health care vs. social health care where your taxes are a bit higher but your treated for free. I for one don't believe only the wealthy should be able to seek treatment, especially when that treatment could eventually bankrupt you because of denied claims or premiums that sky rocket afterwards because you actually used the insurance. There's a reason why 50 million Americans can't get health insurance.

As for you claim Dan that Canada has crappy doctors and sub-par care you should note that our "crappy" doctors and nurses are highly sought after by headhunters in the US. Like most countries, even though we keep turning out highly trained health care workers there are never enough so we try to lure doctors in from around the world... just like the US does which hasn't affected the level of care. In Canada, waiting lists for some things and the number of available beds in hospitals is an issue in some but not all regions of the country. Still, we live 3 years longer than the average American.

The movie did a decent job of comparing the health care system in the US with the systems in Canada, Great Britain and France, enough I thought for people to at least think about alternatives. What surprised me about the movie was the story about how and when HMOs came into being... and it can be heard on the Nixon tapes

As for the trip to Cuba, sure it was a publicity stunt but it was to highlight the fact that suspected terrorists at Gitmo get better health care than most Americans... even though doctors there have been breaking their oath by sharing the medical info with interrogators... but that's another story.

I've been to Cuba a few times now and have always enjoyed it. The people there are some of the friendliest people I've ever met and they get free health care as well. They worship Che Guevara, not Castro so once the old fart kicks the bucket, Cuba will start the shift towards a more socially democratic system.

Kate

I do agree there kate. This issue needs to be better explored in order to find a happy medium between social health care and crappy wait times, and really expensive private health care. How about "private but partially government subsidized care" which would reduce costs, but possibly prevent the waiting list nature of current social health care systems.

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:51 pm

Having practiced medicine in both the private US system as well as the VA in multiple cities I can confidently say this:

The VA is clusterf*cuck!

Residents and Interns are left managing complicated patients that should have highly trained specialists involved. Surgeries and delayed avoided for trivial matters. The nursing care is awful. But for some reason, most of the Veterans love it.

Now, admittedly, my view of the private medical world is a bit skewed, given that I have the benefit of working in a large academic medical center and get to be a couple of steps removed from the $$$ judegments. But I think the care provided here is among the best in the world.

My only knowledge of the canadian, eurpoean, and south african health care systems come from discussions with ex-pat physicians now working in the US. Almost universally those docs say that the US is the best place on earth to get medical care.......IF you have great insurance.

But if you're uninsured or underinsured with a crappy plan, you'd be better off north of the border or across the pond.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:05 pm

Nekulor wrote:How about "private but partially government subsidized care" which would reduce costs, but possibly prevent the waiting list nature of current social health care systems.

Obviously I think this would be a good step in the right direction, but I don't think that would be enough in America. Ignoring government funding, medical care in America is much more expensive than a lot of other places in the world. From my understanding, this is because doctors there have to spend an excessive amount of money on malpractice/insurance/lawyers and associated costs so pass that on to their patients. Whether this is because doctors in America malpractice a lot more than anywhere else or because of the trigger-happy-litigious nature of the American public, or just because the insurance companies have the doctors by the balls, I think this is the one issue that needs to be resolved first before looking at other ways to reduce the cost of visiting a doctor.

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:12 pm

My malpractice premiums were $57k this year

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:24 pm

However, don't tkae that to mean that I somehow think all of the costs of the US healthcare system are related to litigation fears and malpractice.

There are many people and industries with entrenched political interest that profit from overutilization of costly procedures, machinery, and medicine.

The US could definately get it's costs in line without a significant detriment to care if they could finf a way to work around those interests. But those are some of the most powerful lobbies in the world........Dramatic change to US healthcare will require a near revolution.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:28 pm

Are you encouraging a revolution to over-throw the government, Dergon?

I'm pretty sure that's against the Patriot Act! Enjoy the next 5 years in Gitmo!

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Derg, mind if I ask when you were working for the VA?

NESchampion · Post by **NESchampion** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:25 am

I think the real question we all want to know the answer to is this: If the U.S. changes to socialized medicine, will House lose his job?

I hope not.

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:24 am

NESchampion wrote:I think the real question we all want to know the answer to is this: If the U.S. changes to socialized medicine, will House lose his job?

I hope not.

I know what would happen to me. My taxes would see a huge increase. No program the government ever starts ever comes in at the cost that they say it does. It's always higher.