This one has next to zero chance of drawing praise, but I'm going to suggest it nontheless so that it can be considered and discussed if need be.
ALFA is harsh. ALFA2 will undoubtly be every bit as much. Many players are drawn away by the difficulty of overcoming the first few levels. A single crit destroys great character concepts. Its sometimes hard to get to level 3 at all on some servers. In PnP, most DMs fudge rolls generously to help their players get past this hard stage as far as fights are concerned.
Yes in ALFA, we've been able to work it out by encouraging heavily to avoid combat, work closely with DMs, etc. Pretty much the only way for a server to have a way for its players to get past the early levels without DM intervention is to script quests and such. Combat means deaths, even in groups. The question is, to which extent is it desirable? If the answer is "not very", then we can have a simple solution.
If we accept that NWN2 will be in essence a CRPG, we could apply a CRPG solution to the CRPG problem. DDO simply added a feat to all players characters that give them 20 base hitpoints in addition to the normal hitpoints granted by level, constitution and class. Which is an awful lot.
I'd suggest the possibility of scripting for every ALFA PC a similar feat granting a set amount, from 5 to 10HP (to be determined) to all characters in addition of their normal HP progression. No longers would level 1 mages be totally unable to take a blow, or level 1 rogues die to rats in the sewers. Players would still have large incencitive to group up and play with DMs. After a few levels, this handful of hitpoints wouldnt have any real impact on the total, but the help it would give to lowbie players might allow us to help KEEP alot of potentially great roleplayers who are having alot of difficulty getting started.
I realize this is probably going to get flamed into the ground, but i felt it might have been beneficial to getting a larger playerbase had we had such a rule in place - so why not suggest it and see what people think?
NWN2: Heroic Durability
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Swift
- Mook
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I would support this under one condition, and that is that the HP you get for a set number of levels after first is reduced (eg half the amount for the next 3 levels) so that once you have got past the first couple of levels, your HP would still be around what it should be for characters that level, despite the legup you got at first.
I appreciate but disagree with this proposal.
It would mean all the monster spawns would have to be changed as well to make it a challenge. Otherwise we should just award players level 3 and as it is safer there and they are not at risk and leave monster spawns as they are.
Additionally, the ongoing risk of low hps is the price paid for latter power by those caster classes and forces the character to play carefully.
I like the deadliness of level one. And in several years playing on servers that are deadly to lower levels i find with patience and good organisation and scheduling with Dms gaining level 3 is very doable.
Hint: try not to get in any fights till you're level 2, just create your characters personality for that time.
I would hate to see ALFA get less dangerous than it already is.
Other servers i've had a go on provide you with a few levels to start with so if safety is what people need then they can go there. We shouldn't believe we can keep everyone...we have always identified ourselves as a niche PW.
But as i said, i appreciate the point and we should always throw suggestions up there no matter how sure we are they're gonna be shot down
It would mean all the monster spawns would have to be changed as well to make it a challenge. Otherwise we should just award players level 3 and as it is safer there and they are not at risk and leave monster spawns as they are.
Additionally, the ongoing risk of low hps is the price paid for latter power by those caster classes and forces the character to play carefully.
I like the deadliness of level one. And in several years playing on servers that are deadly to lower levels i find with patience and good organisation and scheduling with Dms gaining level 3 is very doable.
Hint: try not to get in any fights till you're level 2, just create your characters personality for that time.
I would hate to see ALFA get less dangerous than it already is.
Other servers i've had a go on provide you with a few levels to start with so if safety is what people need then they can go there. We shouldn't believe we can keep everyone...we have always identified ourselves as a niche PW.
But as i said, i appreciate the point and we should always throw suggestions up there no matter how sure we are they're gonna be shot down
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
Maybe we should simply make monster spawns less dangerous in the first place.
Being killed by 3 rats or a beetle the size of your foot is pretty pants, really.
Being killed by 3 rats or a beetle the size of your foot is pretty pants, really.
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PensivesWetness
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Heroic Durability = Power Gaming. The basis for DDO, like any other Wash, Huggle, Hump (or get Punted) MMORPG is to do quests Diablo2X style with all manner of riffraff. Lvl ones die all the time to stupidity. you shouldn't nerf that risk becuase, as a result, you nerf down achievements like aquaring wealth and magic.... or advancement....Mayhem actually meant to say was wrote:Maybe we should simply make monster spawns exactly to match their base line CR's first, then mod their heriarchy with lvls as such, as the MM's allow, since Millia should, theoretically move down mobs of CR.25 Kobbies..... if she isn't wetting herself in fret over seeing dozens of them, that is.....
/Me Huggles Valamyr anyway<Gebb> ok, what does it mean to be "huggled"? <spidroth_esq> Something terrible. <Squamatus> buggered <Dran> sodomised <Squamatus> by an acorn on a stick <tresca> LOL <Gebb> that didn't help <alynn>
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Stormseeker
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I like the idea. Except if we give them the hp feat, then they roll for hp's at 2nd and 3rd lvl...instead of the auto max we have now. That would balance it out.
Mr. mage could have hp's like this using 5hp as the bonus.
1st 9hp(no modifiers)
2nd 11hp
3rd 13hp
That was going with a roll of 2 on hp's. So at 3rd they could have 11-17hp's. Modifiers would raise this. As it stands a mage if he makes it will have 12hp's at 3rd. I dont see much of a differnce.
But players should have the option to choose between standard and this. When you take classes like fighter or barb and make them roll for 2nd and 3rd lvl hp's there is a greater chance of them having LESS hp's.
It helps out the weaker hp's classes and all 1st lvl's...but thats about it.
Mr. mage could have hp's like this using 5hp as the bonus.
1st 9hp(no modifiers)
2nd 11hp
3rd 13hp
That was going with a roll of 2 on hp's. So at 3rd they could have 11-17hp's. Modifiers would raise this. As it stands a mage if he makes it will have 12hp's at 3rd. I dont see much of a differnce.
But players should have the option to choose between standard and this. When you take classes like fighter or barb and make them roll for 2nd and 3rd lvl hp's there is a greater chance of them having LESS hp's.
It helps out the weaker hp's classes and all 1st lvl's...but thats about it.
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ç i p h é r
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It's probably best to examine the lowbie monster spawns as Mayhem suggested. Not all encounters will be appropriate for all classes, so spawns should be fairly diversified, particularly for quests, to accommodate a wide range of player classes.
Aside from that, the tools are already there to boost your HP if that's important to you. Choose a higher Constitution score and/or take the Toughness feat. Every little bit helps.
Aside from that, the tools are already there to boost your HP if that's important to you. Choose a higher Constitution score and/or take the Toughness feat. Every little bit helps.
+1ç i p h é r wrote:It's probably best to examine the lowbie monster spawns as Mayhem suggested. Not all encounters will be appropriate for all classes, so spawns should be fairly diversified, particularly for quests, to accommodate a wide range of player classes.
Aside from that, the tools are already there to boost your HP if that's important to you. Choose a higher Constitution score and/or take the Toughness feat. Every little bit helps. :)
PC: Bot (WD)
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_)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_(It's true that its definitely a way to see it. Its definitely not in that spirit that i was proposing implementing it here, however.PensivesWetness wrote:Heroic Durability = Power Gaming. The basis for DDO, like any other Wash, Huggle, Hump (or get Punted) MMORPG is to do quests Diablo2X style with all manner of riffraff. Lvl ones die all the time to stupidity. you shouldn't nerf that risk becuase, as a result, you nerf down achievements like aquaring wealth and magic.... or advancement....Mayhem actually meant to say was wrote:Maybe we should simply make monster spawns exactly to match their base line CR's first, then mod their heriarchy with lvls as such, as the MM's allow, since Millia should, theoretically move down mobs of CR.25 Kobbies..... if she isn't wetting herself in fret over seeing dozens of them, that is
Ensuring that the power of mobs is adequate definitely is another possible workaround. The Base mod might help us considerably to achieve that...
No, that's called GMing. Artificially boosting all PC1 because too many servers weren't balanced for them is a work-aroundEnsuring that the power of mobs is adequate definitely is another possible workaround
PC: Bot (WD)
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_)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_//(/|_)(__)/\\_(In a somewhat similar light, turns out NWN2 will only support "Max hitpoints per level" as the built-in system.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... um=95&sp=0
I'm sure itll be possible to code workarounds if we choose to do so. What are everyones' thoughts on the issue? Its a pretty big divergeance from PnP and im not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the idea of having to scale everything to battle 400HP barbarian/dwarven defender tanks.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... um=95&sp=0
I'm sure itll be possible to code workarounds if we choose to do so. What are everyones' thoughts on the issue? Its a pretty big divergeance from PnP and im not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the idea of having to scale everything to battle 400HP barbarian/dwarven defender tanks.
I actually prefer everyone with max hitpoints makes life a lot easier and less luck based.
coz there is a big difference between a level 5 fighter who has 30 + 3+3 hitpoints (not calculating con)
and a fighter who was lucky enough to roll 30 +10 + 10
one who rolls high can easily get a level difference worth of hips vs someone who has tough luck and rolls low.
coz there is a big difference between a level 5 fighter who has 30 + 3+3 hitpoints (not calculating con)
and a fighter who was lucky enough to roll 30 +10 + 10
one who rolls high can easily get a level difference worth of hips vs someone who has tough luck and rolls low.
Witch
current character: Denna Shota
"Soldiers never sleep"
current character: Denna Shota
"Soldiers never sleep"
No scaling should be requried, as long as it applies to the monsters too.Valamyr wrote:In a somewhat similar light, turns out NWN2 will only support "Max hitpoints per level" as the built-in system.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... um=95&sp=0
I'm sure itll be possible to code workarounds if we choose to do so. What are everyones' thoughts on the issue? Its a pretty big divergeance from PnP and im not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the idea of having to scale everything to battle 400HP barbarian/dwarven defender tanks.
Alfa is often rather too lethal for my liking, though - you cannot, in truth, genuinely have a background that calls you anything other than a green recruit, since any alleged experience your "30 year old grizzled hunter" would have gained from his background is soon given the lie when he gets beaten up by a badger.
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MOD: hows that ?
ANON: read what I said
ANON: You feel you can ban someone on a whim
MOD: i can, watch this
ANON: its so stupid how much power you think you have
ANON: Mod you have to be one of the dumbest f**ks ive ever met
MOD: hows that ?
ANON: read what I said
ANON: You feel you can ban someone on a whim
MOD: i can, watch this
ANON: its so stupid how much power you think you have
I'm glad many see and are working towards one of my biggest pet peaves...OVERPOWERED spawns....it plain and simple is Garbage....including overpowered NPC's in the Mod....regardless if they are the sort of NPC who isn't supposed to fight...Garbage..IMVHO
Fix the Mods from the get go and everything will be peachy...
Fix the Mods from the get go and everything will be peachy...
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Swift
- Mook
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Provides a bit of difference though. Some fighters are just more hardy than others, which the HP difference reflects.witch wrote:I actually prefer everyone with max hitpoints makes life a lot easier and less luck based.
coz there is a big difference between a level 5 fighter who has 30 + 3+3 hitpoints (not calculating con)
and a fighter who was lucky enough to roll 30 +10 + 10
one who rolls high can easily get a level difference worth of hips vs someone who has tough luck and rolls low.