Crafting system

[darrenhfx]

If you restrict crafting to be carried out only in guilds would go a long way to clearing up this issue.

Having most of the mundane crafting items (the molds, common ingots, woods, etc) stocked and for sale at the guildhouse would remove the need to have private stocks. Any crafting item a pc finds could be sold to the guild storesperson at an appropriate rate or perhaps guldmembers could be given a p-chest for their crafting items. Guild stocks could be depleted which in turn could lead to further rp possibilities for guild members and friends of guild members to try and find a way to replenish their supply(with DM help).

Our Haze/Penitence folks might know something about this as well, having had a series of original crafting systems over the years.

Anyone know if the stronghold management system can be adapted to perhaps monitor the status of a guild?

[Mulu]

Well, one way to help avoid the lag issue is to never have individual components, and never have a system that requires you to make 100 molds. So, instead of a piece of leather you have a "stack of leather" that consists of 100 pieces or however many you need to make a suit of leather armor. Instead of iron ingots you have a "crate of iron ingots," etc. (with appropriate weight). This way, mundane components necessary to craft only constitute a single item.

Also, assume all tools are part of the workbench, so you don't have to carry around 100 sets of expendable lapidary tools, or a smithing hammer, tongs, apron, etc. Basically, just eliminate as many items as possible in the system.

Guilding it goes a long ways towards allowing IC access. Pay a fee and be allowed to use the workstation.

I haven't tried out the OC's mundane crafting yet, but magical crafting is quite overpowered, though I assume editable.

[White Warlock]

i like guild idea, and membership dues, and violations, penalties, temp loss of membership privileges, etc.

[Fionn]

i like guild idea, and membership dues, and violations, penalties, temp loss of membership privileges, etc.

I'm really mixed here. I can see this so quickly devolving as the de-facto focus of ALFA. OTOH, if we can avoid that, it provides a lot of focus for PC driven adventuring. As long as it's not such a leg up that nobody can *not* be involved, we should try this at least in beta.

[darrenhfx]

It would be a way of putting a different type of control on the crafting system... and introduce a different angle for roleplaying. The rewards need not be entirely financial either as prestige and good-standing within the guild could be developed into being worthwhile pursuits of their own.

I was also thinking about the possibility of developing a generic set of guild facilities that could be released for all servers to use as they see fit. They could have all of the standards already built in, scripts and all the elements ready to plug in and play. (with whatever interior and exterior tailoring to be completed by the server team to make it fit into their build)

Certainly, as Fionn says, something that could be attempted in beta. I don't believe that the guild would become the focus of rping. I think most folks will still gravitate towards the adventure aspects of playing, and dming for that matter.

[White Warlock]

Aye, generic set of guilds, such as assassin's guild, thieves guild, etc. All in module-like form, with NPCs, scripts and generic localized missions attached. I like (NPCs and names will need to be changed out for each area in which it is presented). I also see lots of work required for such. Still, it may be possible to harness the talents presented at the NWVault and Bioware NWN2 forums. We presently rely far too much on inhouse talent, which we are sorely lacking right now.

[Mulu]

Well, for mundane crafting, I see artisan guilds mostly populated by NPC's, like the local smiths. PC's can join and gain access to forge/workbench/tools, without having to buy everything necessary to craft armor/weapons. At higher level, a PC who could afford to set up his own forge in his own house could do so and drop guild membership. For the purposes of crafting, guilds would be a way for an adventuring PC to gain access to all the tools of the trade, without having to lug those same tools around all the time.

One, or maybe two competing artisan guilds could have guildhalls in every large city, thus a PC could change servers and still have access to mundane crafting supplies without paying extra membership fees. The artisan guilds could be catch all for all types of mundane crafting (obviously more efficient buildwise) or one for each type of crafting (more IC in theory, but much larger build investment).

Magical crafting could be restricted to specific mage organizations, which could hire adventurers to bring them necessary components as a quest. A PC mage could join that organization and gain access to the workbenches and alchemical equipment necessary to engage in magical crafting. Again, at higher level, a PC wizard could build a tower and equip it with whatever magical crafting worktables would be used.

So, first you decide what is physically needed to craft in game (workbench, components), then put those resources in guilds and mage organizations, available to PC's through membership. And yes, if a PC starts crafting "too much," a DM could restrict access (guildmaster getting jealous), thus placing an easy stopgap in game.

[Rusty]

As popular as these endless, circular, theoretical discussion are...

I also suggest maybe we something off the shelf, an exisitng system.

From the CTC forum:

What Will And Will Not Be Happening

• The CTC forum is not the place to engage in Crafting Doomthreads ™.
• Any Crafting proposal will have to take full account of ALFA’s wealth standards.
• Any Crafting proposal will have to take realistic account of scripting and technical resources, i.e. practicability.
• As much use as possible should be made of the NWN2 Crafting system and resources.
• Static crafting will be limited to mundane items, i.e. up to Masterwork.
• Magical crafting will be DM-run.
• Scrolls and potions may be excepted from this rule and be crafted statically.
• The creation of a fully static magical crafting system is, for now, not for discussion.

http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=34164

Anyone interested in joining the crafting team should contact Rusty who is coordinating efforts there.

[darrenhfx]

So... the only thing left open to debate and or discussion is the implementation of standards and the development of recipes?

This is assuming that we'll be using the OC system unless there is another off the shelf, existing system ready to be tested.

[Rusty]

It means we cut our cloth to suit our purse.

[Mulu]

Actually all of my suggestions fall within the guidelines posted.

Guilds are simply a way of taking the existing workbenches in NWN2 and restricting their access, thus allowing for more in game control. It would be applicable to any crafting system implemented, including just using the built-in system for mundane and potion/scroll crafting (could even use it for magical crafting, with components only available from DM's). In the absence of anyone building a crafting system, which seems apparent, we could use the official system in beta restricted through guilds and see how it pans out.

[White Warlock]

i gotta be honest. a static crafting system that focuses on non-magical items, up to masterwork, will need to be limited to items other characters would want, and that pose prices far above 100gps. Otherwise, it's just not going to be worth it. And considering the low-interest such items would present in the first place, we should aim for a 'limited' assortment.

Simplicity imposed, molds should be 'combined' with the material to be used, so that components can be 'properly' priced at the NPC merchant (large shield mold + mithril brick). If they are posed as seperate items, it gets real hard to impose appropriate prices at the merchant level. Instead u would have to impose an expenditure of gold at the crafting table (which is an option, and would allow for all the existing crafting components to stay the smae). I also truly don't see the purpose of posing a multitude of components to 'basic' items, but they are already there... so there's that. I do also agree that the tools needed should be available at the crafting table.

So... simplicity means keeping it simple from the onset. One component (or cost of item made to be tied to the crafting table), guild membership dues, make the item... sell to PCs only (NPCs won't buy it for enough, but it can be sold to a PC for profit).* We can, later, make it more complicated for magic items... but if we make it complicated right out of the gate, it will make it virtually impossible to later present magic items into the mix. Also, since we're talking basic items, we can forego time constraints. Include the variable in the equation, but leave that variable flat for now. We can influence this later, with magic item crafting.

* At standard buy/sale, NPC merchants sell for 100% to 110% and buy at 20% to 50%. Components can be purchased for 60%. Add to that the membership dues. From there, we have the wiggle room of potential profit, selling for less than the NPC merchants, but more than the money expended.

That's it for now... really.

[Rusty]

Well done, Mulu. Now just post in the right damn forum. The CTC forum. For discussing Crafting. Not this forum. See, we're trying to move things from General Discussions of Principle to Actual Plans that Get Things Done. That goes for you as well Whitey. Except you shouldn't be posting at all or your shoulder will fall off.

[White Warlock]

Bah!

*adds more superglue*

[Mulu]

Well done, Mulu. Now just post in the right damn forum. The CTC forum.

Well, you did link to *this* forum in your announcement post, so I got confused.

There, I went and made a new thread.