Defense AND global warming

Post by **ayergo** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:07 pm

These seem to be two hot topic items here in the forums, so i thought i'd link to an interesting Navy report on plans for arctic combat:

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/icefree/Fina ... Report.pdf

The general jist is that as ice levels decrease, and the climate in the arctic gets warmer, it lends itself to more attacks by pirates, terrorists, or environmental groups. Since there will be so much floating ice and still cold temperatures, sustained fighting may be difficult and many of our traditional weapons may not work.

An interesting read.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:58 pm

Huh...so I guess the defense department now acknowledges global warming.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:02 pm

"now"? The date of the report is April, 2001 - this is a pre-9/11 world report, almost pre-Bush.

As a veteran of the military in Alaska, Arctic Light Individual Training, the Northern Warfare Training Center, and as a member of the Army's "50 below club" as well as holder of the "Arctic Scout Award" I can safely say that military operations in the Actic SUCK. Nothing seems to work right. As the temperature drops from -20 F to -40 F you'll watch the humvees die off like ebola patients. During field operations at -60, I watched our Swedish made snow-vehicles (called SUSVs or small unit support vehicles), with their Mercedes engines die off one by one until our battalion of 500 people had only two working vehicles left. It took those vehicles two days to extract all of us from the Arctic and we in the scout platoon were just about the last to go - we spent two days trying to survive with a single tent and stove and 5 gallons of mo-gas to keep us warm during a cold spell where the ambient temp hit -63 (a 5 gallon can of mo-gas usually keeps a Yukon stove running for about 12 hours, not 48 ).

Weapon systems don't work too well either. On one live-fire field op my scout squad was tasked with approaching and identifying an enemy strongpoint. We moved across the terrain, and assembled at our "ORP" (objective rally point). From there, we performed our reconnaisance mission and then returned to the ORP (which was half a mile from the objective just to be safe). At the ORP we called in the Live fire mortar barrage. Range regulations required us to move out of the ORP, though in real life we would not have. So, we pulled back and walked (sort of in an "OOC" manner if you will) back to the ridge on which the mortars were placed. There we sat down, broke out our arctic rations (it was winter - temp was around -40) and watched the mortar guys do their thing.

The first 81 mm HE mortar round did not hit the target - it landed directly in the middle of the small clearing that had served as our ORP. Had this been for real, some of us would likely be dead. Naturally, we were somewhat alarmed. Everyone freaked out - coordinates were checked, the ballistic comp was checked, etc. Turns out the mortar guys had done everything right and so had we - but at -40, the mortar rounds just did not go where they were supposed to go.

Thank god for range safety rules.

In another incident we were tasked with blowing craters in a runway in the yukon in winter. We set up a ring charge of C4 and det cord. We used a double-ignition system, as always.

But at -40, things just don't work right - the det cord blew but the C4 didn't - burning chunks of C4 went flying through the air and scattered all over the ground. No crater - just a lot of smouldering plastic explosive bits. So, ultimately, we had to go out there and collect it all to prevent some poor schmoo in the next training cycle from stepping on a chunk and blowing his foot off. And let me tell you - hunting for smouldering chunks of C4 in the snow at -40 while holding a plastic shopping bag of other bits of C4 and det cord is NOT my idea of a fun day or one that helps me reach my daily goal of SURIVING THE GODDAMN DAY.

Hmmph.

I could go on and relate the time a guy on my rope team didn't make the jump across a crevasse on a glacier we were traversing, or the time that one of our guys broke his neck in a glacial crevasse and died, or ... but I think you get the picture. I freakin' HATE the Arctic (at least as far as military ops go) and I don't envy those guys their job AT ALL.

I may hate our current president - but our folks in uniform deserve mad respect for doing their job.

P.S. Coldest ambient temp I performed ops in during my time was -63 F. Coldest calculated temperature, with wind-chill (for what thats worth) that I did ops in was -115 F. And I am STILL not happy about it. Obviously.

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:14 pm

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:56 pm

Everyone but Nyar is missing the real important part of this report: ARCTIC PIRATES.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:11 pm

But but but ... how can we call them "Ice Pirates" if there is no ice?

NESchampion · Post by **NESchampion** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:19 pm

A good video about Global Warming IMO:

Tough To Argue

Also, with Ice Pirates, the catch line "You have to be there to see it." NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:37 pm

Mikayla wrote:But but but ... how can we call them "Ice Pirates" if there is no ice?

That's why I said arctic pirates.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:48 pm

But but but the posters says "Ice Pirates."

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:52 pm

They'll be pirating the remaining ice...selling the ice for a huge mark up to rich heiresses who need ice for their summer drinks and undercutting the huge ice manufacturing conglomerates. They will also have a major sideline in counterfit penguins.

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:16 pm

Try Waterworld instead.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:10 pm

Mikayla wrote:But but but the posters says "Ice Pirates."

Fuck the poster! But maybe the pirates have an ice base that is slowly melting around them.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:24 pm

Wait wait wait. Maybe NINJAS stole the ICE! Thats why the ICE pirates have no ice, and and and, then it'd be sooooo cool if the Ice Pirates then had to go battle the Ice Ninjas over the ... the ... the ice. Yeah. Cool. Dudes.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:43 am

No, no no Mikayla. The ice pirates must battle ninja monkey pirate aliens on their own mothership for the ice. After all, some of my misguided brethren can only see that as the possible explanation for global warming.

I swear, most of the religious right needs a wake up call on science. Dinosaurs and humans never coexisted. That's simply silly. Noah built his arc wayyyyyyyyy after the death of the dinosaurs.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:44 am

Nekulor wrote:Huh...so I guess the defense department now acknowledges global warming.

Would you believe me if I told you the denial machine set up for the debunking of Global Warming comes from the Oil & Gas sector who not only borrowed the tactic from the Tobacco industry but even use the same PR agencies? Oh yeah, they even share some of the "scientists" who take money from both industries.

Kate