Ignoring History

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:46 pm

Stormseeker wrote:*points at examples* just more signs of bad units, or command structure within the units. Not all units are like that and some of those would be unlaw full orders. Why don't you try getting examples from the good units. Better yet go ask some vets yourselves.
The units i was in would never tolerate that type of behavior...someone would be in handcuffs with charges on them in a hart beat.

I do agree that most americans live in a bubble...they just don't have a clue how lucky they are.

Unfortunately, it only takes 1 bad apple to tarnish the whole bunch. The good units are never the ones you hear about, it is the ones not doing the right thing that make the news and tarnish the armys/presidents image, though it is debatable whether you could tarnish Bushs image more than it already has been.

To think he managed to get re-elected...

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:54 pm

Stormseeker wrote:*points at examples* just more signs of bad units, or command structure within the units. Not all units are like that and some of those would be unlaw full orders. Why don't you try getting examples from the good units. Better yet go ask some vets yourselves.
The units i was in would never tolerate that type of behavior...someone would be in handcuffs with charges on them in a hart beat.

I do agree that most americans live in a bubble...they just don't have a clue how lucky they are.

Sure, but then you've got 50 bad units out there, and that's just the units with people willing to put their name to paper, so I would guess it's just the tip of the iceburg.

At the end of the day, who has been made safer by this war on Iraq? What has been resolved? America was never in any danger, and the life of the average Iraqi is significantly worse. Americans staying there is not going to help because you've got all these "bad units" not caring who they shoot, so again, why support the continuation of this?

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:33 pm

If your sick of it so much, get the f*sk off the off topic forums. Nobody makes you come here and participate in these threads. Your crusade against these kinds of posts is as annoying as the posts themselves

This is what Im talking about. ALFA is use to allowing these topics and our sometimes mouths to get the better of our image. We have talked in the past year of cleaning up the project/forums to make our image healthier in the minds of our fellow NWN community, yet we continue to allow heated and sometimes downright hostile debate happen here and on other sections of the forums. I would be happy to see it all just go away and let us show our good sides to the NWN community and all who come by here.

Im not perfect and can let topics get the better of me and Im pushing for this. We need to showcase our project not show that we are bashing each other and pushing our views on each other at every turn. Once again I will say that most other Online communities DO NOT allow topics to appear on the off topic forums like we have for years. They simply dont want their members to get into it with each other or they dont want to see the flaming that will happen when heated topics are brought up. No topics like these...you have no problems on your forums. I know we try to say we are adult enough to address these issues, but you all know that that isnt the case as most topics grow heated, flames insue, and we get spamming of pics or nonsense.

We should just drop these kinds of topics and let off topic be a place to discuss music, movies, other gaming, etc. Not the heated political, sexual, anti-this or that topics we seem to woller in now. Just my 2 cents, but once again we are trying to bring in new blood not drive them off. Its not about being thick skinned its about projecting an image.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:53 pm

In general most people, both Liberal and Republican, can handle these types of threads. It's just a small and very vocal minority on either side of the fence that turn them into ... let's say, "passionate discussions"...

Obviously the real solution here is to ban Jeppan, yourself, Mulu and Nekulor from OffTopic.

And let's just ban Helios from the forums completely. He's really just a troll-bot anyway.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:01 pm

Actually, I am trying to stay out of these discussions. Honestly. Turning them into just vanilla topics would go a long way to keeping us more passionate folks from even bothering. Im not going to get my hopes up, but it would be a smart move on the Admins part to just change the rules on Off topic.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:34 am

I'll just reiterate what I've said about ten times before, election forums have been far worse than off topic, though they seem to be getting better. At least what we're arguing about here is objectively important. Getting nasty over who does what volunteer job in an online game of D&D is ridiculous.

And nothing beats an alignment debate. Maybe it's time for another one?

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:42 am

Anyway, on the topic, there are certainly some "bad apples" in our military. The proper term is war criminals. But a lot of the bad that is happening in Iraq is the situation itself. I mean, if you had to man a checkpoint, you probably wouldn't hesitate to gun down a fast approaching car either.

Iraq is like the Stanford Prison Experiment done large. Our soldiers are trained to fight armies, not occupy a hostile civilian population. Put people in an atrocious situation, and they do atrocious things, even the ones who aren't sadistic by nature. Everyone is capable of evil acts, you just have to be pushed hard enough.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:46 am

NickD wrote:In general most people, both Liberal and Republican, can handle these types of threads. It's just a small and very vocal minority on either side of the fence that turn them into ... let's say, "passionate discussions"...

Obviously the real solution here is to ban Jeppan, yourself, Mulu and Nekulor from OffTopic.

And let's just ban Helios from the forums completely. He's really just a troll-bot anyway.

Nick, I've stayed out of things for the last few weeks. Besides, you can be a "heated debater" yourself. Here I make a stand for the politically outcast, all of us, liberal and conservative. I may not be able to stomach their views, or vice versa, but we all have the right (currently) to throw them out, many times with a distinct lack of evidence. Do I act mostly on my feelings and impulses? Of course! I know I'm a sometimes nutty, impassioned idealist. However, in America, we have a right to all be nutty idealists.
Besides, its fair and balanced. We have dan, stormy, and I for conservative and Jeppan, Mulu and Yourself for liberal, with Helios, Mikayla, swift, burt, et. el. who drop in time to time and keep us from virtually killing each other, out of game anyway. Honestly, ALFA is some of the best off topic political discussion I've found. Some of it is really, really bad, resulting in terrible, senseless flame wars from post #1.

Just my 2cents. If you want to see stupid politics, the Forums of the Dead for the Necrowind/Cid89's necromancy mod are really bad about politics.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:06 am

There is nothing wrong with heated discussion, so long as both sides can remember to keep the insults and personal attacks in check.

Jeppan · Post by **Jeppan** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:43 am

NickD wrote: Obviously the real solution here is to ban Jeppan, yourself, Mulu and Nekulor from OffTopic.

Bite me!

Jeppan · Post by **Jeppan** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:49 am

I enjoy the political and religious threads in this forum. Where else would I meet crazyily conservative americans argumenting for bans on aborts, religious reichs, weapons for all and christians crusades to the Middle east.

The only ban I would like to be effected is on Helios, cause he is only spammingly annoying. I am glad he is on your side Nekulor! With friends like that who needs enemies.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:16 am

Danubus wrote:Actually, I am trying to stay out of these discussions.

Coming into every one of them telling the people involved to STFU and re-iterating your stance that certain subjects should be banned is not classed as 'staying out of them'. I would go so far as to say it is intentionally trolling, as you know exactly the reaction you will get, you know they generally don't follow your own point of view, yet you do it anyway.

Honestly, anyone who goes to an off topic forum of any community expecting it to be some sort of showcase on what we are all about needs their heads checked.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:58 pm

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:01 pm

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:37 pm

All these thread become are Mulu and his Bush bashing nonsense. Thats one reason I get pissed off. I dont always agree with Bush, but the constant bashing gets old. Your like a kid who got his ass kicked in grade school and now wants to show how great you are now that you might have filled out some and arent such a pussy.