Climbing

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:42 pm

Hi,
I know an expanded skillset is out until OE sort out the .2da file but I'm keen to include some climbs in some areas I'm working on. I've downloaded the Markshire climbing system from the vault to have a look at and was wondering the following;
1) Anyone used those scripts and are they any good?
2) If the scripts are useable could we add them to the ACR and then rewrite the skill check to use Climb if and when it's available to PCs? Hopefully then everyone's using the same system and it can be updated seamlessly.
Thoughts?
Teric

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:50 pm

It's certainly possible to integrate it with ACR, if that's desired.

Wynna · Post by **Wynna** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:34 pm

Climbing's easy. I had a system in NWN1. Put a conversation on a useable rock or tree or rope or whathaveyou:

"Do you wish to climb (Dex Check DC10)"

"Why, yes, I'd like to try my skills at scrambling up this sheer cliff face fully knowing that there's a damage of D1000 for failure."

"Hells no, I wouldn't touch that escarpment with a +10 grappling hook."

If they choose Option 1, run the Dex Check and transport them to Success_WP if successful. If not, apply damage.

If you name Success_WP as the same name as the item providing the conversation with the addition of a "_WP" suffix, then you can use the same script over and over again thusly:
object oSuccessWP = GetWaypointByTag(GetName(OBJECT_SELF) + "_WP");

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:47 pm

Hi Wynna,
Yeah, I could just put a quick and dirty script in but the Markhire system includes things like armour check penalties, racial bonuses, clues as to the difficulty of the climb on wisdom checks, equippable items to give bonuses and so on. All fun stuff and more than I'd want to do from scratch myself. Also with a bit of modification it could work for jumping across things too. I will check it out tonight and report back.

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:02 pm

I haven't used Markshire's climb scripts, specifically ('cuz I've had my own forever, which handles ranks/abilities/ACP/move speed/etc), but I'm generally impressed by the fellow's work. Would probably be doing alright to gank said scripts and use 'em.

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:10 pm

Teric neDhalir wrote:Hi Wynna,
Yeah, I could just put a quick and dirty script in but the Markhire system includes things like armour check penalties, racial bonuses, clues as to the difficulty of the climb on wisdom checks, equippable items to give bonuses and so on. All fun stuff and more than I'd want to do from scratch myself. Also with a bit of modification it could work for jumping across things too. I will check it out tonight and report back.

That sounds fairly impressive.

Wynna · Post by **Wynna** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:19 pm

I'll just be quiet now and stop posting the obvious. Can't wait to hear how well such a cool sounding system works!

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:28 pm

Having had a look at this the scripting seems fine, and easily upgradeable when Climb becomes a PC skill, however I'm not 100% pleased with the feedback given to players (it took a while to actually find one of the climb points in their example mod). I think it just needs larger placeables and more description.

The system is basically one script, a placeable with variables and a couple of equippable items. I'll make a set of climb points for ladders, ropes, rocks etc with suitable DCs and probably alter the price and description of the kits that give circumstance bonuses. If I do that do I need to name the scripts etc with appropriate acr names, and if so what?

Cheers
Teric

Brokenbone · Post by **Brokenbone** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 pm

The system Zelknolf integrated into the NWN1 Haks does not require finding climb "points" or other highlightable, placeable thingies.

Yes, one can still have a very specific climbing placeable, like, say, a rope dangling from someplace that you click on... with maybe a particularly well thought out DC on it, as well as an integer for length, in case there's a horrible fall somewhere during the climb cycle (greater damage possible etc.). But there's also just "point the targeting reticle any reasonable place nearby at a different elevation" going on.

I do not know about the system in anywhere near as great a detail as Zelknolf, I do not know about NWN1 <---> NWN2 portability, nor comparison/contrast to the Markshire system. Just a heads up that in NWN1 we currently enjoy what I think is a remarkably flexible climbing system.

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:41 am

Brokenbone wrote:The system Zelknolf integrated into the NWN1 Haks does not require finding climb "points" or other highlightable, placeable thingies.

Does not require, but accomodates... something that I think would be vital to integrating the system into NWN2, primarily because non-placeable-using climbs use a comparison of the difference onthe XY plane to the difference in the Z coordinate (between current location and clicked-on location) to determine whether the PC is trying to climb or jump. The trick with NWN2 is in the exteriors. Elevation changes are much much more fluid, and while I can reliably say that climbing up is about 7 meters up and 1 meter over 99.95% of the time in NWN1, it's iffier in NWN2 (so minimal modifications can make 'em work in NWN2, but climbing would end up working on cliffs, and not steep slopes, and efforts to climb a steep slope would likely be interpreted as an effort to jump, causing the script to utter something kin to "lol - lemme know when you get 15 monk levels and 18 ranks in jump.")

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:38 am

I'm not wedded to the Markshire system - it's just the most obvious thing I could find. If someone could give me a link to Zelknoff's scripts I'd be happy to check those out too.

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:50 pm

I'm still pondering this topic and some scripts by oldmanwhistler on the vault inspired me to thinking about the other movement skills like jump and balance. It seems like something that would be fairly easy to implement but all of the scripted systems I've seen don't give enough choices for my liking. I would rather the PC clicked the activation point and was told whether it's a doddle (Take 10), possible if risky or impossible. And that means doing the calculation of difficulty of the activity before the PC decides whether to have a go. Simple enough you would think but I can't figure out how to get the skill check penalty of the PC's armour. If anyone could put me out of my misery I'd appreciate it.
Teric

Zelknolf · Post by **Zelknolf** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:15 am

I believe there's a toggle in the GetSkillRank or whateveritscalled function to tell it whether to return the actual number of ranks the character has or the final skill modifier. You could just ask for the latter and end up with an easy number for the number that'd actually go into climbing.

If you still need ACP separate, I'd reccomend checking item properties and AC on a piece of armor, and then comparing to the standard fare for ACP on that AC (maybe err on the side of "less ACP" for chainmail v. breastplate or chain shirt v. scale mail). GetItemPropertyCostTableValue can get you the severity of magical enhancement, if any, and that subtracted from GetAC can get you the armor's base AC.

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:25 pm

Hi Zelknoff,
Thanks for that. You're right about GetSkillRank() (I looked it up). The problem is that Jump/Climb etc aren't "real" skills yet. And when they are this discussion becomes academic

As far as getting the specific armor penalty goes a further search suggests that it's not possible - there are calls for such a function on the Bioware forums, for example. The information is plainly there in various 2da files and the item properties includes an entry called ArmorRulesInfo which displays all the relevant modifiers... I mean it must be accessible somehow because it's taken into account everytime you use a stealth skill.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:38 pm

If there is an existing skill that is not being used by ALFA, you can simply instead 'refer' to it as climbing. Ensure everyone knows this, and *poof*, you're set. A good option would be *set traps*. It's available as a prime skill to the same classes that would be good at climbing, it's not being used by ALFA (that i'm aware of), and it relies on dex as its prime ability. So, just script the climbing functions to use *set traps,* Make it very clear to everyone in ALFA that *set traps* is actually Climbing, and you're set.

My thoughts. Eat them as is or beat them with a stick until they're chewy.