Suggestions

[dirsa]

I'ts not a bad idea, but I'm just wondering if it was possible to have a "collective morale", where it checks individual morale against creatures of it's own type around it. The as the numbers dwindle, so would the morale of it's "collective". As it stands right now, a beggar could chase down a horde of soldiers. The other pain in the neck is chasing them into area transitions.

i think he just nailed it... while each gnoll individually might have gotten scared of all the armored men in previously named encounter, as a large pack they certainly shouldn't have. script likely looks at each monster individually, so in essence one higher level character could scare off all orcs in woods...

[Wynna]

The script looks at number of mobs and gives them an upwards adjustment if they're in a large group. It also looks at number of PCs and gives the mobs a downward adjustment if the PCs are in a large group. Those two could cancel. It does not look at the level of the PC at all.

We're adjusting morale upwards as we get feedback. When I was testing it was impossible for me to test on my test rig with more than one PC and hard to test on AL's test rig with more than 4 PCs for more than a few monsters. I'll just adjust again until we get it believable.

[oldgrayrogue]

I think the suggestion of a collective morale adjustment is a good one. However, let me chime in here to say in terms of mob combat I am LOVING the new morale system. IMO it has made combat much more unpredictable and challenging. In the past every mob spawn encounter was fairly predictable, and easy for a player to farm if so inclined once one learns the AI. With the morale system the mobs are running all over the place, sometimes fleeing, at other times charging, or fleeing and then charging etc etc. This randomness captures the chaotic nature of actual combat as best as this game platform can IMO -- at least as best as I have ever seen done.

While the fleeing monsters who go and hide from one PC do create the possibility for solo farming -- which I think can be easily tweaked (assuming its technically possible, see below) -- I don't think its unbelivable or otherwise outside the realm of possibility, and actually provides a much more fertile environment for RP from a spawn encounter than the typical predictible AI of spawns generally. A group of 4 gnolls run away from a lone wizard? Maybe their cowards? Afraid of magic? Maybe their "leader" fled and they peed themselves and followed? Maybe they were on a scouting mission with orders not to engage? Maybe you can go back to town now and brag about it? Maybe it makes your PC careless because now he thinks all gnolls are cowards and he pays the price later when the next group chases him down? Yes, this takes imagination and filling in the blanks around the morale guided AI, but man do I ever find it preferable to no variety in spawn encounters at all. This brings things to life by injecting realism in the form of unpredictible variation. It also provides an opportunity to use skills that cannot be used when the AI sets the hostile attacked spawn to just charge in and fight to the death, and to RP their use. It up to us all to provide the reasons our PC's think these variations are happening using our imaginations.

As to the potential for a single PC to pick off a large # of spawns solo at a distance when they all flee and hide, yes this is a potential exploit and a bit unrealistic. Can it be set somehow so that after two attack/flee or hide encounters the spawn simply disappears to simulate his running away as fast as he can for dear life? Or code it so that ultimately they will charge and fight to the death? I have always disliked the fact that most spawn encounters end up being a fight to the death, either for the spawn or the PC. In RL, and in FR I'd venture, most fights don't end up this way. Rather someone usually has enough and "surrenders" or runs away. Again this would bring even more realism and opportunity for post spawn battle RP -- i.e. "We fought them bravely but two of the cowards got away, damn them."

Now I know everyone who is concerned with XP and the difficulty to earn it will cry foul. I would suggest that in return for what I think is this healthy dose of realism maybe the DM's could up their rewards a bit to make up the difference. Thanks to Teric and whoever else created this system and Wynna and others for continuing to develop and enhance it in response to our feedback.

[Soapie]

In the event AsuraKing mentioned some of the gnolls were acting more like distressed animals at a petting farm than fleeing soldiers. If they were trying to run away from each new person seen then I think it'd be better to pick a direction when broken and stick to it.

[Hughes]

i'm with OGR, I love it too. been wishing bad guys could get scared and run away since NWN1 came out.

[mishmash]

Haha that was a fitting description Soapie

The scripts were very annoying on that occasion, but they are set to be improved, so last night's experience was actually very useful for testing purposes.

[NickD]

Perhaps a few adjustments to the morale system could be that

1. Monsters only make morale checks after losing half their hitpoints.
2. It looks like in Burts case they were still broken hours later, so perhaps, if no longer pursued they get morale back.
3. As stated, groups give a morale boost. Perhaps it should also take the HD of the group into account.


Overall, I'm loving the new morale system, but it does make some combat just a bit too much like shooting fish in a barrell.

Oh, and if you can use the group to calculate morale, it would be really neat if you could use the group to calculate the XP each mob should give you based on the ER rather than the CR!

[Teric neDhalir]

The script looks at number of mobs and gives them an upwards adjustment if they're in a large group. It also looks at number of PCs and gives the mobs a downward adjustment if the PCs are in a large group. Those two could cancel. It does not look at the level of the PC at all.

My bad. I've given you all a bum steer. What I thought was a function to count up number of friends vs number of enemies is actually totalling CR or Hit Dice. Creatures with high CR do get an extra bonus for that, however. I think I'm on the track of how to add the morale check to creatures with the commoner faction (so ya don't have to do it by hand tag by tag, Wyn) and also how to make hostiles retreat beyond the PC perception distance so they don't hover about where they're easily picked off with ranged weapons. No promises, as I've obviously been wrong before....
Teric

[Wynna]

That does explain why the low CR critters like gnolls are running no matter how many of them there are. Knowing what the problem is is half the battle. We'll get the fix for that scripted asap.

[Burt]

On a tangent from the morale discussion - would it be possible to get a jeweler in Silverymoon (with ALFA gem buyback rates) that is clearly labeled on the map?

[Wynna]

How about the one called Isolia's Jewelry, in North Silvy? I could try to make the map note flash, if that would make it more clearly labeled.

[Burt]

*mutters*

[Brother Humphrey]

More varieties of animal pelt drops. Badger, Bunny, weasel, Winter Wolf, etc, should all have skinnable hides worth commensurate ammounts of coin according to difficulty, etc. Just my 2 wooden nickles' worth

P.S. This would also give more opportunities for confrontations between hunter types and the various forms of folliage fondling, tree hugging, knothole bangers interested in stopping the hunters from nuking the whales and whatnot.

[Vendrin]

A lot of merchants currently say they'll buy something like pelts or a weapon, and offer a price, but when you try to sell it to them, it says they won't buy items of that type.

[danielmn]

A quick note on the morale change...

About 1/3 of the enemy flees from me now, even the weaker ones...

A lot better. A lot more realistic...well done Wynna.