Fox gives McCain an 82% win over Obama in the latest debate

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:43 am

You condemn the smear tactics from the right, but then engage in it yourself by assailing these forums with smears from the left. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds....

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:03 am

ç i p h é r wrote:You condemn the smear tactics from the right, but then engage in it yourself by assailing these forums with smears from the left. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds....

The quotes I pulled were backed up by quotes from his book, or from GOP senators on the record.... It's false smears that don't belong.

Seriously, can you read his passage about being worried about his career from a ship fire that killed 133 sailors and wounded a couple of hundred others and not get miffed? And calling his own stint at the Naval Academy four years of insubordination doesn't score any points either. I'm not going to claim the whole article is accurate, or inaccurate, since I don't actually know, and I'm sure not going to challenge you to "debunk" it.

But the parts that were quotes from the news or himself or the GOP sure seem credible.

As for the rest of the post, it's called "the news."

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:54 pm

Sure, because a single passage from a book (assuming it's even true) misses the broader picture. And as to that period in his life, he's talked about it. He's learned from it. Were you not young and defiant once? Wasn't Obama, who professes to have experimented with hard drugs like cocaine? The thing is, these guys have learned from the mistakes of their youth, as do we all. McCain is hardly the same guy who he was 50 years ago.

You are perpetuating a smear. Nothing more.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:14 pm

ç i p h é r wrote: The thing is, these guys have learned from the mistakes of their youth, as do we all. McCain is hardly the same guy who he was 50 years ago.

Unfortunately, neither is he the guy he was 4 years ago, when things like honour and values meant more to him than being elected...

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:37 pm

ç i p h é r wrote:The thing is, these guys have learned from the mistakes of their youth

Well that's the big question, isn't it? His youth shows him to be an ambitious and reckless grandstander concerned only with his own career, and the last few weeks show him to be an... ambitious and reckless grandstander concerned only with his own career. I think the lesson he learned from his youth is that when he puts McCain First he gets ahead in life, and he likes it. Another aspect about McCain that seems to get little press is his unrepentant womanizing and adultery, which he again wrote about. The right loves to paint Clinton as the ultimate womanizer, but I think McCain put him to shame, and would still today if he wasn't too old.

Though I was actually far more concerned about his consistent ratings of being a foul-tempered hot head who acts before he thinks. Dangerous stuff that in the White House. It's a moot point now, we'll never know how good or bad of a President McCain would have been, though his choice for VP boded ill.

Vaelahr · Post by **Vaelahr** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Mulu wrote: ...we'll never know how good or bad of a President McCain would have been, though his choice for VP boded ill.

You sir, are counting your chickens before they come home to roost.....

I mean.... you're putting all your ducks in a row of baskets.....or something.

You know what I mean! Poll data is used to shape public opinion, not reflect it. This election is closer than you think.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:03 pm

Vaelahr wrote:Poll data is used to shape public opinion, not reflect it. This election is closer than you think.

If your screwing with the data specifically to produce favorable results, hence why i never pay any attention to political party releasing 'internal' polling.

If you are legitimately polling a random selection of people and the results are consistently leaning to one side or the other, thats simply stating the god damn truth.

Additionally, and perhaps this is me just giving you too much credit as a nation, but even i don't think Americans are so dumb as to elect 8 more years of Bush policy aka John McCain, and this is one time i seriously do not want to be proven wrong, since Americans actions often have ramifications even here in Australia.

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:23 pm

Guys, Mulu knows that elections are decided on election day. And although the odds are looking to be in Obamas favour, I would wager to suggest that a main reason to repeatedly proclaim the election is a done deal is out of glee and to be irritatingly aggravating towards the supporters of the other guy.

If it's like this even before the election, we may have to institute a no-gloating rule after.

Vaelahr · Post by **Vaelahr** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:30 pm

Veilan wrote: If it's like this even before the election, we may have to institute a no-gloating rule after.

You're kidding, right?

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:35 pm

Well, I'm honestly wishing Ron Paul wouldn't appear as befuddled at times.

Despite disagreeing with him on foreign policy, I think that he substantively trumps both current candidates.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:35 pm

At this point the only person who could put McCain in the White House is Osama Bin Laden or something equally earth shattering. So sure, anything is possible, but McCain is looking an awful lot like Hillary during the primary. The GOP strategy currently has been stated as "holding the reddest states and trying to prevent a landslide." They're not even trying to win anymore, they're just trying not to lose too badly.

I will give McCain one win, he was a lot funnier than Obama at the Al Smith charity dinner. If you haven't watched the whole video of that yet, you're missing out. If McCain had campaigned that cavalierly, he probably wouldn't be facing a sweep.

I wonder if Sarah Palin made any comments about the financial crisis being a sign of the End of Days? Or more accurately, if she made those comments in a way we're going to hear about them, since I'm quite certain she would say that. How does a woman who honestly believes she is a member of the "terminal generation," i.e. the last people who will live on this Earth, ever care about preventing any disaster?

And seriously after all the right-wing vitriol on these boards, I think some of us deserve a little gloat time.

Vaelahr · Post by **Vaelahr** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:44 pm

Mulu wrote: And seriously after all the right-wing vitriol on these boards...

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:18 pm

Yes I'm looking at you kid.

Close to a third of all 18-24 year olds do not have a landline. Pollsters are seriously beginning to be concerned that their presidential preference (Obama by a landslide) is being undercounted. Mark Blumental wrote a column in the National Journal looking at this issue and concluded that Obama's strength is probably being underestimated by 2-3% as a result of this effect.

Landslide baby landslide.

WaPo wrote:This week, when McCain made appearances at the Al Smith dinner and “The Late Show With David Letterman,” he was funny and self-deprecating. Suddenly you remembered — this guy used to be likeable. Back before he was trying to argue that what a country in economic collapse needs most is tax cuts for the rich and an end to Senate earmarks.

He used to not only be likeable, but actually kind of smart. Heck, back in 2001 he essentially predicted that the 2004 Dem ticket would be Kerry and Edwards, in a Rolling Stone interview no less. He called Putin correctly too. "I think you've got a leader in Vladimir Putin who is very nostalgic for the old Russian empire, and who would like very much to reassert Russia into the world stage."

What a sad moment this is in his career, allowing ambition to upend his other priorities.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:07 am

To be fair, you really didn't need to be a genius to see that Putin was what he is

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:43 am

Swift wrote:Additionally, and perhaps this is me just giving you too much credit as a nation, but even i don't think Americans are so dumb as to elect 8 more years of Bush policy aka John McCain

i have serious doubts