Tumble

[oldgrayrogue]

Not sure if this is the place to ask this question, but do tumble ranks offer any dodge bonuses to AC in ALFA? Is the AC bonus only applied in Parry mode? (i.e. "defensive fighting"). I have noticed the game system rolling automatic Tumble checks to avoid AoO's when my PC tries to flee an opponent, but am wondering if the skill is otherwise useful.

[Curmudgeon]

NWN2 Wiki's take on Tumble

[oldgrayrogue]

Thanks Curm. Yeah the +1 bonus to AC granted by 10 Tumble ranks makes it a very valuable skill in NWN2 as opposed to PnP where you just get additional dodge bonuses for every 5 ranks while fighting defensively. I don't believe my PC (who has more than 10 ranks in Tumble) received a +1 bonus to AC so I am wondering if any AC bonus at all is received in ALFA such as the dodge bonus, and if so whether it is applied only in Parry Mode, which I guess approximates defensive fighting.

[Curmudgeon]

In NWN1, Tumble is very useful for avoiding AoO when rushing opponents, as when moving past the front-line tanks to get at the casters, for example.

[Mick]

Also, OGR, remember that the ranks that count are only the points you have actually spent on the tumble skill. Dex, skill focus feat and/or item bonuses, while of added benefit when the tumble skill is used, are of no benefit in calculating whether or not you get a dodge AC bonus from your tumble skill.

Unless I am mistaken, you would have to be 7th level to gain the +1 to AC as that is the earliest level you could have a raw tumble score of 10.

[Rotku]

Level ........... Ranks (max)
1 .................... 4
2 .................... 5
3 .................... 6
4 .................... 7
5 .................... 8
6 .................... 9
7 .................... 10

[oldgrayrogue]

Yeah, I think my level 5 PC gets bonuses from feats and dex for a +13 Tumble mod. I'll have to survive 2 more levels and report whether he gets the boost to AC at a natural +10 =) And yes, becoming essentially immune to AoO's is a huge benefit, did not mean to imply it was not.

[HEEGZ]

I had no idea it didn't apply until you had 10 points invested.

[Brokenbone]

In NWN1 you definitely had to have actual "invested" ranks to get certain benefits, applied to the Spellcraft skill as well in terms of getting a bonus to save vs. any spells. If you had Ability modifiers and whatnot on top of that, lucky you for any other situational roles, but the passive effects (AC in case of tumble, spell saves in case of spellcraft) tied strictly to unaltered ranks I thought. *shrugs* Tumble in NWN2 just went from "need 5" to "need 10" to get the benefit.

[johnlewismcleod]

...that count are only the points you have actually spent on the tumble skill....

Grrrr...

Is this something coded into NWN2, or something we hak'ed in?

I continue to be baffled as to why bonus skill points are excluded from use IG. Bonus points always come at a cost and are meant to compensate for corresponding weaknesses in classes or races. (i.e. elves -2 con, +2 dex, halfling -2 strength, +2 dex, etc.).

If it's canon, of course, I retract my question. But if not...can anyone explain why it is done?

[Riotnrrd]

Bonuses to your skill ranks apply when making tumble checks (for instance to avoid an attack of opportunity, or to use as a perform check for dancing / acrobatics).

They just don't apply for the AC bonus.

[johnlewismcleod]

Bonuses to your skill ranks apply when making tumble checks (for instance to avoid an attack of opportunity, or to use as a perform check for dancing / acrobatics).

They just don't apply for the AC bonus.

I was clear on that, but I've run into many other instances with other skill use is hampered by the same phenomena. My question is did we do this purposely, or is it something the just comes with NWN2?

It's been many, many years since I cracked open a Player's Handbook, so if it is canon...it's fine.

[Riotnrrd]

NWN2 is a modification of the canon version, seen here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm

However, note that it says tumble ranks... which are the points you put into the skill, without bonuses.

[LenweTon]

NWN2 is a modification of the canon version, seen here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm

However, note that it says tumble ranks... which are the points you put into the skill, without bonuses.

Anyway the canon version of Tumble of PnP is designed to give the chance to let the Rogues live, I mean:

If you have 5 or more ranks in Tumble, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2 dodge bonus to AC.
-
If you have 5 or more ranks in Tumble, you gain a +6 dodge bonus to AC when executing the total defense standard action instead of the usual +4 dodge bonus to AC.

On NWN1 the whole system loses the purpose of a full rogue due to the possibility to stack Skill points and *DING!* at Level 40 your Dex Based Warrior 29 / Weapon Master 10 can take a whole level of Rogue and *SHAZAM!* +5 or more permanent AC.

On NWN2 that munckinism and AC cheating was broken due the need of 10 points on Tumble to +1 AC and the impossibility to stack skill points, driving the user to the decide if he really needs to invest more levels as a Rogue in a basis of 3 fighter levels and 1 rogue level, with a max cap of Level 30, leaving some AB on the process only for getting +3 permanent AC or roll a Full Rogue later.

[johnlewismcleod]

On NWN1 the whole system loses the purpose of a full rogue due to the possibility to stack Skill points and *DING!* at Level 40 your Dex Based Warrior 29 / Weapon Master 10 can take a whole level of Rogue and *SHAZAM!* +5 or more permanent AC.

On NWN2 that munckinism and AC cheating was broken due the need of 10 points on Tumble to +1 AC and the impossibility to stack skill points, driving the user to the decide if he really needs to invest more levels as a Rogue in a basis of 3 fighter levels and 1 rogue level, with a max cap of Level 30, leaving some AB on the process only for getting +3 permanent AC or roll a Full Rogue later.

Heh...sorry, Lenweton...when you start talking about PC levels above 10, I'm lost.

I've really got no idea what you just said there, but there's no need to clarify...really