Skill Based PCs

[Brokenbone]

I hear on good authority that you can find D&D products online!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD98SQS000

[Rotku]

90% of the DMG really isn't worth it. Most of the good stuff is in the PHB.

[Riotnrrd]

90% of the DMG really isn't worth it. Most of the good stuff is in the PHB.

For SHAME! The DMG and the DMG2 are really really really good. If you're a DM and don't have a copy, please send me a PM.

[Rotku]

*Goes to dig his DMG out of a cardboard box, blows the dust off it and sets it open on the desk*

Let's see. Chapter 1 silly information that any one who has been DMing for a bit will know - probably great to people just starting table top RP. CHapter 2 looks at creating new races/classes, has a list of those PrC things and then a brief look at NPC classes. Chapter 3 I have to admit looks useful. Chapter 4 I've never really found helpful, as it deals more with your typical dungeon crawl adventures than RP orientated ones. Chapter 5, looking at Campaigns, as a few things of mild interest in, but generally things that experience teaches anyway. Chapter 6 not of any use in ALFA, as it deals with World Building. Chapter 7 and 8, which deals with rewards and magical items, is useful to the extent that they help one understand our standards.

Really really really really good though? Those wouldn't be my choice of words

Can't comment on DMG2, although the word I've heard by a few people is that it's got some good stuff for beginner DMs, but if you've DMed one or two sessions you've probably worked out most of it already. But then, like I said, this is just what I've heard and not from personal experience. Haven't been bothered to cough up the cash to buy it.

Must have books I would say are FnP, FRCS and PHB. I also occasionally crack open Races of Faerun when making a new PC.

[Riotnrrd]

<begin thread hijack>
Rotku your words hurt my very soul! The names of the 3.5 DMG chapters pretty much speak for themselves:

Running the Game
Using the Rules
Adventures
Nonplayer Characters
Campaigns
Characters
Magic Items

Show me a DM who doesn't need to know at least some of these to be a good ALFA DM, and I'll eat my hat.

The DMG2 expands upon each of these topics, and while not quite as common as the original DMG it is definitely worth careful study.

- Player styles and how to control and satisfy them
- Archetypical locations for new ideas (evil crypt, flooding dungeon, etc)
- Beginning and ending a campaign
- Medieval society
- Laws and punishments
- Hirelings
- PC organizations
and much more

KNOW THE RULES! Consistency is critical for our world.
<end thread hijack>

[NickD]

I was an ALFA DM and I ain't never read no book in me entire life!


(Haven't read DM's guide since 2ed anyway...)

[NickD]

Same goes with being [...] smarter or better looking than we are IRL.

Yes, that's exactly the angle I was going for with my current character.

You pull it off well. Maybe you underestimate your own intelligence?

Wait...

Are you saying I'm smarter or stupider than Gruu?

[Mulu]

This is the best dungeon master's guide.

[Dorn]

- Medieval society
- Laws and punishments

Those two sound like they'd be useful.

You can be 'good' aligned and still kick the filthy stinking peasant out of your way, it's the way things are done.

Fewer courts with carefully considered jail term, more summary execution by a drunk nobleman.

[Riotnrrd]

This is the best dungeon master's guide.

Thanks... some pretty good stuff in there.

[Brokenbone]

LOL re: Dorn's post... love it off.

I can't remember how many times modern, 20th century looking "due process with a bunch of lawyers" type of stuff you'd see crop up when some dispute'd come up, maybe PCs caught doing something like murdering NPCs or robbing someone or whatever, all of a sudden one or more PC allies would become Perry Mason in the throne room of whichever server you were at. Trial in front of Charney Ricpeth, inquiry under Lord Randal Morn, whatever. Always hated that.

DMG2 gets pretty good idea juices flowing around page 103 about the whole law and justice thing. Basics like people having rights are not to be taken for granted, scum adventurers who are not actual citizens of the town where they get in trouble or otherwise able to trace an oath of fealty to the local authorities may have absolutely no rights. Prisons are rarer than you'd think too, often political prisoners / those of rank enough to avoid the headsman's axe or the hangman... everyone else gets stuff like death (even for petty theft), forced labor, or at the lowest end, at least some kind of mutilation, maybe a brand, but better yet, lose a hand, eye or something.

Anyhow, sure it deviates from skills, but remains square on topic of resources DMs can place some good reliance on, even if just for consistency's sake among a server team... deciding whether some rural backwoods village is going to have an elaborate courtroom setting and carefully figured out fines, or if it'll be the poor townsfolk, unable to subdue a nasty Fighter 3 and Cleric 4, getting their local lord to issue a Writ of Outlawry, basically meaning all the other scum adventurers out there are offered a bounty for the heads the smelly townsfolk are too weak to collect themselves. Why bother with a trial if you know you could be cut in half or blasted into oblivion if the trial doesn't go the way of the accused?

Er, back to skills, I guess social skills like Intimidate or Diplomacy could help you elude "immediate" capture by authorities, instead causing the local constabulary to sneak off and ask their Lord to set some hefty bounties, let all the adventurers kill themselves off.

[Mulu]

Just remember churches were sanctuaries, even from the law. Once inside you couldn't be punished for anything, and could parlay a reduction of punishment or even just bribe the locals into forgetting about the whole thing. Once you take away due process, all you have left is customs and corruption. Only poor people get punished under such systems, and adventurers are relatively wealthy compared to peasants. They also tend to belong to powerful factions and be effectively knights of the land, a knight in this case being less a title than an acknowledgement of personal wealth, power, and martial skills.

I've never actually bought the whole "D&D is Medieval Earth" idea. You're talking about gameworlds with crossover technology from other worlds and other planes of existence, magical powers that put our own current technology to shame, dozens of different sentient races, real gods, etc. Medieval humans would never survive that environment, they're too primitive.

[Brokenbone]

Mulu is reminding me of a very humorous take on whether D&D's setting might be more like the Iron Age than any Medieval setting... the "Dungeonomicon" series of posts from WOTC forums. A representative excerpt (but the post itself is worth checking out even for the humorous PRCs):

Temporal Authority in D&D
"Kill the dragon, marry the princess, rule the kingdom."

D&D is set in an essentially Iron Age setting. If your group (or even you personally) are known to be hardcore enough, you actually do rule the lands extending as far as you can reach. This doesn't mean that you don't need a bureaucracy, because there's still relatively little that you can do on your own. That administrative staff is necessary, it's there to tell people what you want them to do, and to tell you when they aren't doing it.

In fairy tales, as well as D&D, the guy (or girl) who saves the kingdom by slaying the big monster marries the child of the local king. This is usually because the current king is himself a powerful dude with a PC class himself. His children may be aristocrats, and by marrying them off to a powerful adventurer who may well be able to take his kingdom by force, he's preserved his own position and kept his family from being set on fire. Nominally in this situation the crown is still in the previous king's family and moving to the next generation normally. You may even get a title like "Prince Consort" or something – but everyone knows that you are running the show because you can slay dragons. Noone is going to say it, but the princess' only real job in this scenario is to… keep you happy. And she's not even the only one that has that job. Surprisingly, the previous king is actually fine with that, because if his daughter has Aristocrat levels, that really is the best he can expect for her.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9483435

[Mulu]

That's a great link!

I've always found it funny when DM's chastise players for having their PC's kill orcs. This article explains why it's funny.

[Ithildur]

Jeez... this is a related but entirely separate topic that can and has engendered endless debate and interpretation/speculation on it's own.