Paladin/Monk Multiclassing

[mogonk]

I tried to find some information on this via forum search, but haven't had any luck. If this is addressed elsewhere or if this is the wrong board on which to post this, I apologize.

Bear with me, this gets kinda complicated. I'm assuming that ALFA adheres to PnP rules on Paladin multi-classing (Paladin's can multiclass, but they can never again raise their Paladin level after they take levels in another class). Monks face the exact same restriction. Now, there are orders of Paladins that allow free multi-classing with certain other classes. There are orders of Monks that allow free multi-classing with certain other classes. My question is this: If one were a member of a Monk order that allowed one to multiclass as a Paladin, would one ALSO need to belong to a Paladin order that allowed one to multiclass as a Monk?

Example: A Sun Soul Monk can multi in any one other class as long as levels in that class do not exceed her monk levels. So a level 1 Monk can take her second level in Paladin, and then take her 3rd level in Monk again, without facing a restriction from the Monk class. That much is certain. But can she take her 4th level in Paladin, or does the Paladin multi-class restriction prevent it?

I would think that the Sun Soul Order would qualify as the Paladin Order for a Monk who becomes a Paladin under its auspices, but that's definitely not the only interpretation of the rules, nor am I sure if it's the correct one.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

You would have to belong to a Monk Order that allowed paladin multiclassing and a Paladin order that allowed Monk multiclassing. Off the top of my head, the only deity that allows for both of those would be Ilmater and Yondalla, who both have monk orders that allow paladin multiclassing and paladin orders that allow monk multiclassing.

Or, we get the Monastic Training and Knightly Training feats added so people can take a feat to allow multiclassing.

[hollyfant]

The trick is to see them both separately. Sun Soul allows it's Monks to pursue one other class. So you can be a Monk, become a Paladin and still take levels of Monk later.

None of the three deities involved with the Sun Soul allows its Paladins the same freedom. So you can be a Paladin and become a Monk, but you cannot then return to the ways of the Paladin. Mind: you do not "fall", you just cease to become better as a Paladin.

Other orders of Paladins allow their adherents to become Monks, but they'd then have to join a monastic order that doesn't allow them to leave and then return to their path.

So the options are: Monk, then Paladin, then Monk again, or Paladin, then Monk, then Paladin again.

It's somewhat against the spirit of ALFA, but the only way of mixing levels of monk and paladin - short of dedicating yourself to Yondalla - is to plan your levels out ahead. Likely you'll want both classes somewhat soonish in your life. but once you are a 1 monk/1 paladin you're pretty much stuck. As a Sun Souler you can now only switch back to leveling as a monk at some point. After that: no more paladin levels for you!

Alternatively, you could be a monk without taking Monk levels. A Paladin-Fighter would have the feats to mimic some of the Monk's abilities, and there's no actual requirement to have levels in the Monk class when you are a member of a monastic order.

You could also act as a Paladin without being a Paladin: Cleric-Monk or Ranger-Monk are options too. Unlike with the Monk thing you can't go around calling yourself a Paladin without actual levels in the class, but them's the breaks.

[mogonk]

Off the top of my head, the only deity that allows for both of those would be Ilmater and Yondalla, who both have monk orders that allow paladin multiclassing and paladin orders that allow monk multiclassing.

I'm not familiar with the order of Paladins of Ilmater that can multi to monk...and the only monk order dedicated to Ilmater afaik are the Broken Ones, and they can't multi to Paladin. So, yeah.

All the solutions to the problem (aside from Hin Fist) seem unforgivably meta to me. Oh well.

I suppose one of the pseudo monk/pally options will have to do.

Edit: Hey, does anybody know if ALFA has fixed the fact that FoB doesn't work properly with most monk weapons? According to the wiki, in vanilla NWN2 it only works with kama and quarterstaff. I'd rather not create a new thread just to ask that question.

[Curmudgeon]

The official WotC list of Monk and Paladin Orders in the Forgotten Realms and their limitations on multiclassing is found in a Web Enhancement to the Faiths and Pantheons book that may be found here.

There is a link to this on the page of the ALFA Player's Guide titled Playing Your Class. We recommend that all ALFA players read the Player's Guide to ALFA (link at the top of this page).

[Brokenbone]

Re Flurry of Blows, I'm almost sure no one in ALFA has addressed the problem of going "beyond vanilla" into other typical monk weapons. Maybe solutions / adjustments are to be found on NWN Vault, to check out, sniff out, test, integrate, whatever.

[Brokenbone]

Ah, and the Canon question above - - I guess the Order of the Golden Cup (Ilmater) takes both Paladins and Monks, or best I can tell, it did in 2nd Edition, notwithstanding the F&P Web Enhancement not listing Monks.

Bloodstone Lands related modules, pdfs, whatever, from ye olde 2nd Edition AD&D days should detail it well enough, again, from an age well before 3 / 3.5 and things like multiclassing restrictions of this sort. That's where the Monastery of the Yellow Rose is at, it's not shocking that the campaign gives a lot of Ilmater fluff. Companions of the Noble Heart have some role in the BS Lands too.

Funny thing: despite dozens of Canon orders being listed in F&P, how many do you think are represented in ALFA? Some have their strongholds in way out of the way spots (Yellow Rose Monastery is off in Damara or something, right, maybe if the "Cold Lands" ever get built we'd see it)... bet all the halfling orders are in Lurien or something like that, some naughty ones might have a Zhentil Keep HQ, etc. I guess some of the looser orders you could say "oh yeah, this Church of Sune has a few wandering Sun Soul instructors to mentor a PC", but that won't work for all orders.

[oldgrayrogue]

FRCS specifically lists Silverymoon as a starting "region" for monks I believe.