LOGGING AND ALFA

[CloudDancing]

The Skywing Client Extender Master log that automatically shows up in the c:/program/atari/neverwinternights2 folder is invaluable. I have enable to show everything via tne nwn2.ini and the nwn2player.ini.

For example I did a plot over a year ago and I lost my notes. I was able to go into this HUGE log and type "urn" and "Nethereese" and in a few seconds I was right at that point in time and was able to copy and past all the work I had done with those characters.

There is also the option of creating a folder that is a short cut to the local log folder and saving manually at the end or a session or when something questionable goes on. But screenshots (though easily taken out of context w/o all the screens of a conversation) can be a reliable source of evidence.

(PS. I would reccomend Curm for setting up Skywing; he seems to speak the right language for the technologically inexperienced to do stuff with NWN)

[Darkmystic]

Disputes happen, coming to the table without logs (don't need to be CE based) is begging to be on the losing end. Whether in CvC as participant or witness, whether as a DM you catch misconduct "red handed" etc.

Are you hinting that our PA wont be fair unless you got electronic back up? And even if one side has it only, wont it reveal just as much as two logs would?

[johnlewismcleod]

BB makes an excellent point about the logs being useful for more than just dispute resolution. I've never used my logs for a dispute (I score that primarily to good luck on my part), but I use them frequently to glean the facts from fast paced IC dialogue that either get's by me IG, or crops up weeks later after I've forgotten the details.

Logging is just ridiculously helpful for everyone...I confidently predict that anyone who hasn't been taking advantage of it will wonder how they ever managed without it once they start doing it.

[Zelknolf]

Disputes happen, coming to the table without logs (don't need to be CE based) is begging to be on the losing end. Whether in CvC as participant or witness, whether as a DM you catch misconduct "red handed" etc.

Are you hinting that our PA wont be fair unless you got electronic back up? And even if one side has it only, wont it reveal just as much as two logs would?

I believe the claim here is that the PA will do his best with the evidence presented, and it's difficult to defend oneself without evidence: and that can get worse depending on where the burden of proof falls.

[Brokenbone]

One side with a briefcase stuffed full of evidence, and the other with none except "uh, that's not how I remember it", who sounds more convincing to anyone helping investigate or ultimately adjudicate a dispute? ARs, DMs, PA, etc.

That's the kind of stuff that makes the difference between warnings and strikes, between having the reputation of a fair DM or an unfair DM, an above board player or a cheater, etc.

I do not fully know Dan's reasons for repeated "logging, it's useful, how can I help you use it" posts over the months, that's over to him.

I've used logs as recently as yesterday to pull together little bits and pieces of event summaries within a player group. Like "who is exactly to blame for a trap blowing up on Rhaggot" (and all evidence is: Merrin's fault).

[oldgrayrogue]

I don't use logs either. I know all the reasons for it but just never have done it.

[danielmn]

Disputes happen, coming to the table without logs (don't need to be CE based) is begging to be on the losing end. Whether in CvC as participant or witness, whether as a DM you catch misconduct "red handed" etc.

Are you hinting that our PA wont be fair unless you got electronic back up? And even if one side has it only, wont it reveal just as much as two logs would?

I don't find it good practice to adjudicate he said/she saids. Both sides will be immature, pointing fingers at the other side anyway, with no evidence to support it is not a good decision to hand out judgements based on he said/she said. That is less of the Position of Administrator, and more the position of Despot. Having to make guesses about whom is wrong is no way to Administrate. And no, all logs do not reveal the same thing.

Now...Is there an issue or problem people are having in setting up either the Client Extender, or if you prefer not to use the Client Extender, the Gnomish Log Rotator, that I do not know about or can help with?

[fluffmonster]

Its not that big a hassle to fake a log. Its just a text file.

[danielmn]

Its not that big a hassle to fake a log. Its just a text file.

As PA I have to trust the playerbase would not resort to such. That said, screenshots are more effective I agree. Logs are still a good thing to keep.

And anyone who didn't know that does now, so many thanks, fluff.

[t-ice]

At least back at Exodus we did have logs saved on the server side as well. If logs are really crucial, or there's doubt of something as dire as cheating by faking logs, shouldn't be that much of a problem to use those.
Server side logs tend to balloon, but it's just a text file, search should work well enough to find the spot.

[Castano]

Its not that big a hassle to fake a log. Its just a text file.

As PA I have to trust the playerbase would not resort to such. That said, screenshots are more effective I agree. Logs are still a good thing to keep.

And anyone who didn't know that does now, so many thanks, fluff.

everyone knew this already The bottom line is if you get caught faking logs I think your time is this community will end with a perma-ban. Your PCs certainly won't get any DMing and players won't play with you, so efectively you can kiss ALFA goodbye.

The servers log alot of actions t-ice, the log parser is fully equiped to catch cheaters and has done so repeatedly in the past. We even all-caps things in the log like logouts while bleeding and self looting so they can't be missed. They are then investigated to see if there is some reasonable explanation.

[t-ice]

The servers log alot of actions t-ice, the log parser is fully equiped to catch cheaters and has done so repeatedly in the past.

Then logging chat text entered into it by players should solve this once and for all. I mean if the possibility to just do that is there, why are we even talking about "players having the present their own evidence before the judge"?

[Brokenbone]

Because no one wants cybersex logs except the participants?

[johnlewismcleod]

Disputes happen, coming to the table without logs (don't need to be CE based) is begging to be on the losing end. Whether in CvC as participant or witness, whether as a DM you catch misconduct "red handed" etc.

Are you hinting that our PA wont be fair unless you got electronic back up? And even if one side has it only, wont it reveal just as much as two logs would?

Very insightful, DM. Yes...you are spot on!

The PA (and all the staff, really) will never attempt to be fair with players and the only defense players can hope for is to call them onto the carpet as frequently as possible about their horrid treatment of players.

Be sure to accuse them of favouritism as often as possible as this is the best means possible to ensure that you will not be discriminated against like all the other poor sods who meekly and erroneously assume the staff is doing their utmost to provide fair treatment to everyone.

[Ithildur]

Disputes happen, coming to the table without logs (don't need to be CE based) is begging to be on the losing end. Whether in CvC as participant or witness, whether as a DM you catch misconduct "red handed" etc.

Logging is easy. Even if preferred tools like the CE are turned down as options. Later you'll kick yourself if some smug cheater with better "evidence" walks all over you in a dispute.

Edit. Positive log use is for dms or players to recall plots, names, details, summarize things in like, faction forums, DM forums, library etc. Gee were we seeking 600gp or 600 platinum, check log and be sure.

+1