What's GOOD about NWN2?

[Nalo Jade]

I've been hearing a lot about the negatives for NWN2. What are the good things, besides the graphics.

[Soapie]

Non grid based exteriors (at the cost of being more work) and well I'll edit this when I think of something else.

[indio]

Ya, well, probably the fact that lots of the same people who built and DM'd on ALFA NWN1 servers worked on our NWN2 servers is what makes it good. I dunno, I'm just guessing. Graphics be damned.

[hollyfant]

Pathfinding.

[Veilan]

Wing Commander controlling is win.

[AcadiusLost]

Let's see:

• Dynamic PC "description" fields, no more rebuilds to fix them, can change it however often you like.
• PCs can rename items in their inventories to personalize them.
• Spoken languages are scripted, allowing for additional interesting RP
• PC tools animation emotes allow much more posing/acting on top of emotes
• easy "voice throwing" (in languages, no less) for DMs and familiars
• PnP-style mechanics for spell restoration (wizards through study, divine casters through prayer, innate through rest)
• Offline resting heals/restores spells for time spent offline, unlike in NWN1
• Crit "floor" - no PC can be one-hit instamorgued in ALFA's NWN-ACR, max is -6, allowing some window for aid.
• Onehanded weapons may be used two-handed automatically when the offhand is free
• Bastard swords made to work with Martial prof. for 2-handed use
• Solid subdual system for nonlethal combat that works on NPCs/creatures as well
• No meta-info on classes and levels at the login screen of the game
• 3.5E ruleset for pesky rules like druids and bows
• Fully scalable creatures and placeables in three dimensions via the toolset, scripts, or DM tools
• Races (*cough*elves*cough*) at canon heights without resorting to buggy phenotypes
• All PCs scalable for height variations at character creation
• Aasimar, Tieflings, Genasi

That's briefly off the top of my head, not counting the "coming soon" features. The camera control isn't great, and it's certainly troublesome in the bugs/incomplete systems area, but I think plenty new and good has been enabled by the NWN2 platform. Much of it is due to work by DMFI, Heed of PC tools fame, and all the work that's gone into the ACR by Cipher, Ronan, Bartleby, Creslyn and others; but there is certainly a lot in the "plus" category there.

[NickD]

3.5 rules?

[AcadiusLost]

Also:

• Seamless ATs that warn you when you're heading into trouble, and let you back out if you change your mind.
• Spawn system that prepares an area before PC's enter an area, removing the dreaded lag-spawning on top of PCs.
• 40+ slots for text macros.
• Toggleable AFK flag.
• Automated RPXP timers that award without needing DM assist.
• swappable terrains for seasonal changes on servers

(re: 3.5E rules, we had ongoing confusion with NWN1-ALFA between 3.0 and 3.5 rulesets, as the game was coded for 3.0, but many DMs and servers used 3.5E rules for RP'd spells, pricing, etc. D&D 3.5 edition also handles usable weapons by druids differently than 3.0 did. NWN2-ALFA at least puts things in a consistent "canon" ruleset, though now with 4E out, who knows what will come.)

[Mulu]

[*]PCs can rename items in their inventories to personalize them.
[*]Spoken languages are scripted, allowing for additional interesting RP
[*]PC tools animation emotes allow much more posing/acting on top of emotes
[*]easy "voice throwing" (in languages, no less) for DMs and familiars
[*]Offline resting heals/restores spells for time spent offline, unlike in NWN1
[*]Crit "floor" - no PC can be one-hit instamorgued in ALFA's NWN-ACR, max is -6, allowing some window for aid.
[*]Solid subdual system for nonlethal combat that works on NPCs/creatures as well
[*]3.5E ruleset for pesky rules like druids and bows
[*]All PCs scalable for height variations at character creation
[*]Aasimar, Tieflings, Genasi[/list]

/

Toggleable AFK flag.
Automated RPXP timers that award without needing DM assist.

All of this is available for NWN1, FYI. May not be in ALFA NWN1, but other PW's have them.

The biggest advantage I see for NWN2 is also its biggest disadvantage, the tremendously more powerful toolset. For a power user, it's a godsend I'm sure. For the rest of us, it's an unscalable brick wall (pun intended).

I think the two platforms are equivalent in the objective, and I've had fun in both, but on a person by person basis obviously most people are going to prefer one over the other. Just depends on the person. But knowing that roughly 4/5 of NWNers prefer NWN1 and 1/5 prefer NWN2 should be enough to silence the "why won't everyone move to NWN2?" crowd. One would hope anyway.

[Veilan]

What "crowd"?

I believe stopping the negative effect of group mechanics is something we should strive for, especially when it's only fictional groups we have.

[JaydeMoon]

It's a crowd of 'Zic'!

[Swift]

But knowing that roughly 4/5 of NWNers prefer NWN1 and 1/5 prefer NWN2 should be enough to silence the "why won't everyone move to NWN2?" crowd. One would hope anyway.

Erm...why?

A vast majority of the older generation do not use much new technology, not because the technology isn't good, but simply because the 'old way' is what they know and are comfortable with.

Same deal here. Out of those 4 of 5 that prefer NWN1, how many prefer it simply because they already know it and can't/won't learn something new?

Im not advocating one way or the other, each platform has its positives and negatives, but don't assume the preference for NWN1 is simply because NWN2 is bad. It can be quite a bit more powerful, just not as easily as we had it for NWN1, and that alone is enough to scare alot away.

[Burt]

It potentially lets you play two characters in ALFA.

TSM is pretty awesome and getting better weekly.

It still has developer support.

Spells have a new nifty pre-cast effect so you can aim better at your allies (or for some reason avoid them).

[Pathos Street]

Personally, I prefer the NWN2 controls to the NWN1 controls.

- Spellcasting is a lot more convenient, with all your spells displayed and an easy to use spellcasting quickbar
- Items are sized to inventory slots, like in most CRPGs, so you don't have to worry about playing inventory tetris
- Combat targeting is more fluid, you don't have to try and click on the avatar of your target as it dances around... no accidentally hitting someone in your party with a magic missile
- AoE spells have a graphical depiction of their area, so you can aim them better when partied

Other benefits

- non-tile-based exteriors allow world builders to make much more realistic and interesting scenery
- more feats, spells, and PrC's than NWN1
- the stupid discipline skill was removed, and a 3.5ish knockdown added
- most abusable class abilities have a cooldown timer
- toolset, while a bit more difficult to use, is a ton more powerful, allowing you to make your own particle effects, import terrain heightmaps, and use third-party plugins
- DR system is the 3.5 system, which is more interesting than the 3.0 system
- customizable xml-based GUI which allows content creators to make game-enhancing GUI elements (like Heed's PC tools)

Probably a lot that I'm missing, but that's the stuff that springs readily to mind.

The only place where NWN2 is deficient is that it still has a few bugs - but everyone knows that NWN1 was just as bad for a long time. The difference is that NWN1 has had 6 1/2 years of bugfixing, and only as recently as 1.68 were some essential bugs being fixed. The only worry I have with NWN2 is that OEI might not be as willing to support the game for as long as Bioware has supported NWN1.

[wvincenti]

I have to confess that I'm more curious to see the newer tilesets available for NWN1.
I'm stunned at the sheer number of spells available in the CEP compared to what is available in ALFA currently. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't cry if folks decided to start over from scratch with new haks for the NWN1 servers.

-Bill