Inter-Team: Favoured Souls, Discussion and Implementation

[Veilan]

Hey,

for ease of access, and in light of the time demands, I think it's best if we have the discussion directly here instead of in Standards.

To keep discussion focussed, I'm going to start right off the bat with an implementation suggestion - that offers everyone to chime in with criticism and opinion in a specific way instead of broad "yeah they're fine / no they smell of rotten cranberries, actually", and it allows the techies to quickly interject with alternative approaches, their own opinions, and an outlay what would be what feasible.

Alright, with the new base classes, there are two major aspects that need to be addressed: Balance and Canon.

Balance

The way the class seems to be set up is a cleric full progression spellcaster with additional combat capabilities. So what we have here is an even better fighting cleric - this, for a PW, is really problematic. I don't think I need to elaborate too much why a cleric with spontaneous casting and an even further highlight on tanking ability would, in a PW setting, outshine both classic fighting classes and your regular cleric, even though the spellcasting ability is somewhat split between two scores (the FS is hardly a DC based caster, so this drawback doesn't mean too much).

So, my initial proposal focusses along the lines of diminishing the classes overstressed combat capability. Sadly, this will only mean "nerfing" - but the class, taken from a supplement, is rather powerful.

• Saving Throws
  Move Reflex Save progression to secondary save table.
• Deity's Weapon Focus
  Move from 3rd to 5th level.
• Energy Resistance
  Feat is removed in ALFA. Replace with "Great Fortitude" at level 10 instead.
• Deity's Weapon Specialisation
  Drop.
• Damage Reduction
  Drop. At the very very least, reduce to 3/chosen metal.

Canon

Now I'm not an expert here, but from what I gathered, Favoured Souls seem like extraordinary chat buddies with their deity. This is an impossible strain on DMs and a partly too exceptional character concept to be portrayed like that.

So, what we need is a good "ALFA" interpretation on how FS fit into the canon of the game world. This is outside my job description to deal with, so I'm curious what you folks come up with. Personally, I could see something along the lines of "divine sorcerer", who got their gift from the god, whether they want it or not, and need to see what to do with their calling. That, to mee, seems to offer great roleplaying opportunities - but I'm just throwing out quick ideas here, and am happy to leave this problem to others to solve.

Thanks everyone,

[AcadiusLost]

Personally, I could see something along the lines of "divine sorcerer", who got their gift from the god, whether they want it or not, and need to see what to do with their calling. That, to mee, seems to offer great roleplaying opportunities - but I'm just throwing out quick ideas here, and am happy to leave this problem to others to solve.

This is how I've seen them played before- Favored by the diety for reasons that may be unclear to the character itself- they may not even fully understand the nature of the arrangement. Taken in this context, I can see them working for ALFA- they would be no more a "spokesperson" for their diety than a cleric (less so, perhaps, for lack of formal training). The power comparison to a cleric is along the lines of sorc to wizard- if you were only going to use 3 or 4 spells per level, ever, it's a slight power boost (though with spontaneous conversion, the cleric could still load up on combat and buff spells and continue to be a healomatic). I know for the years that I played a cleric, having the full spell list to choose from at time of memorization was a huge boon (even wizards need to find/scribe/buy additional spells). Having only a few to choose from, chosen at levelup, means the class loses a great deal of flexibility.

Dropping the reflex save progression would be reasonable IMHO- aren't monks the only class that gets High for all saves, otherwise?

I seem to remember FS stating without Heavy Armor proficiency, as well, though I could be wrong on that one. Medium armor is another limitation vs. Clerics, albeit one that can be bought back with a feat.

I can try applying the 2da fix that is supposed to split the casting attribute up for favored souls (supposed to be WIS and CHA, currently CHA and CHA) as well.

I'd say the only thing we really need with this class, is a scripted mechanism for retracting the diety's favor. This would be handy to have for clerics and other divine casters as well, but for Favored Souls, that "favor" is quite specifically out of the player's hands- in a PW environment, it makes sense for the DMs to be able to remove and restore it at will (though some thought will naturally have to go into this- Helm or Torm aren't going to pull favor lightly, while Beshaba, Shar, Mask or Cyric might do so as a casual whim). I'd talked to Cipher some about how best to implement this, but we haven't gotten to it yet. Still it's something that doesn't require character creation changes, so can be added post-live.

[Veilan]

This is how I've seen them played before- Favored by the diety for reasons that may be unclear to the character itself- they may not even fully understand the nature of the arrangement. Taken in this context, I can see them working for ALFA- they would be no more a "spokesperson" for their diety than a cleric (less so, perhaps, for lack of formal training).

I'm glad I wasn't entirely off the mark then. In such an interpretation, I think they are a fine and interesting addition to the roleplaying opportunites ALFA has to offer.

Dropping the reflex save progression would be reasonable IMHO- aren't monks the only class that gets High for all saves, otherwise?

Yes, currently only monks get all three saves high.

I seem to remember FS stating without Heavy Armor proficiency, as well, though I could be wrong on that one. Medium armor is another limitation vs. Clerics, albeit one that can be bought back with a feat.

Yes, they only start with medium armour proficiency, but considering they get a weapon proficiency for free at startup, we're not talking about any net loss of feats here for a combat-oriented class as the FS is. That they're not forced to start with medium armour may hopefully lead someone to play a favoured soul without full plate .

I can try applying the 2da fix that is supposed to split the casting attribute up for favored souls (supposed to be WIS and CHA, currently CHA and CHA) as well.

That would be great, but I do not consider this to be too major - FS's are certainly not DC-based offensive casters, even if of course one attribute alone helps. More worrisome is that the in-game text says its split, and people may end up mis-investing this way, so if a fix is not too problematic, it'd be great.

[Veilan]

Some other interesting input on the canon / story angle, kindly supplied by Zelknolf:

Being "called" to service doesn't seem like it would necessarily have to be a burden to the DM team or put the favored soul on speaking terms with a deity. It could function as something more akin to a lifelong geas, with nagging compulsions to go out and do the tasks of their deity, however begrudgingly. Such doesn't really require communication, or really much feedback (beyond that I could see a DM disallowing certain actions from a favored soul, what with it being treated like compulsion.) I do think that the favored soul is an exceptional enough character to fit into whatever official agreement on how we control the population on planetouched, though. Putting an angel five generations up on the family tree seems distinctly less presumptuous than putting divine intervention into a character's birth, imho.

[AcadiusLost]

I can try applying the 2da fix that is supposed to split the casting attribute up for favored souls (supposed to be WIS and CHA, currently CHA and CHA) as well.

That would be great, but I do not consider this to be too major

Looks like Obsidian got this at 1.12 - no need to adjust.