ALFA PG-13 or 18+ ?

[Blindhamsterman]

In the UK, you're considered to be an adult at 16 in most ways, so I'd say if you want to impose an age requirement on new members, make it 16.

if you want a disclaimer for mature content, go for that as well.

[zicada]

In the UK, you're considered to be an adult at 16 in most ways, so I'd say if you want to impose an age requirement on new members, make it 16.

if you want a disclaimer for mature content, go for that as well.

The reason this and the other thread even exist in the first place isn't the UK mate

It's a fine little mix of too many lawyers having had anything to do with ALFA + a group of 'conserned US citizens' with skewed ideas of morality/maturity and "think of the children" concepts. If they need to put a sticker on an online community to sleep well at night, just let them

If this age poll is actually correct, the way the game is played shouldn't change either way, even if many of us who are used to the internet find it very unusual that this discussion even exists in the first place.

[Blindhamsterman]

point taken, I guess with our user base being 18+ anyhow and our chances of getting much 'new blood' diminishing beyond the die hard RPG players (who again are usually over 18). It hardly matters.

Just make it 18+ as the majority voted that way anyhow (though I agree with some folk in that putting such a label, will a) make some folk expect others to 'like it or lump it' if they choose to take things to an extreme b) result in expectations of some folk that such things will become standard and finally c) it WILL make some folk think twice about joining.

The reason it'll cause point c) to happen, is that there are plenty of folk that simply don't want to play in sessions where such things (erp, extreme violence, themes such as rape etc etc) happen, I know of some players in ALFA that avoid it anyway, which is fine, but branding ALFA as 18+ will make some folk that haven't already played believe it to be unavoidable, whatever the truth may be.

FYI, I generally don't have an issue with the extreme themes that do and always have been about in ALFA, they are how some people play and in the past I've even been involved in them myself *shrug*.

[Spider Jones]

Other:

PG13 with 18+ possibility / hollyfant's "fade to black" option or something similar.

I do not want 18+ to be a free pass for people to communicate sick, graphical violence or adult content without prior consent to public channels or unwilling participants. Just because I am over 18 does not mean I want to have to always read the stuff.

So in short: PG13, 18+ for consenting parties using private means of communication.

Cheers,

[Analogkid]

so 18+ is where ALFA is heading then? Can we just move ALFA to go under social and be done with this then? Seriously this is just plain stupid. Just because the population is being winnowed down to a few who can still get their rocks off by having a certain type of fun on here does not mean we have to slam the door on those who still want to ADVENTURE!


I know for a fact that there are people under the age of 18 who want to give ALFA a try. Sheesh, i'll admit it, my daughter has played on ALFA and she is under 18. For god's sake, kids can and do play dungeons and dragons. I've been playing since I was 11 and my son currently plays pnp D&D, and hes inquired about ALFA as well. There's already enough we all have to deal with, without putting in a 18+ sign hanging over ALFA.

Please just leave things as they are.

[Swift]

so 18+ is where ALFA is heading then? Can we just move ALFA to go under social and be done with this then? Seriously this is just plain stupid. Just because the population is being winnowed down to a few who can still get their rocks off by having a certain type of fun on here does not mean we have to slam the door on those who still want to ADVENTURE!

And this is exactly why it should changed to 'mature' rather than '18+', because this uninformed reaction is what we will get.

[Basilica]

Hi there,

so 18+ is where ALFA is heading then? Can we just move ALFA to go under social and be done with this then? Seriously this is just plain stupid. Just because the population is being winnowed down to a few who can still get their rocks off by having a certain type of fun on here does not mean we have to slam the door on those who still want to ADVENTURE!

I think that it is a (significantly) an unfair characterization to suggest that the intent here is to slam the door shut on RP that does not involve one "getting their rocks off". I suspect that I can safely claim that nobody is seriously making such a claim.

When I voted for 18+, I did so as that I believe that in a world where there are concepts and consequences as far-reaching and irreversible as involuntary permanent character death, that the rest of our RP should not be artificially stunted to paper over adult concepts.

Should we toss out Bane, Cyric, and Loviatar because the activities of these deities may be inappropriate for young children? I believe that this would be a loss -- the same as forbidding romance topics because these may also be inappropriate for young children. (I will wager that you, and most of us here, in all probability, have probably enjoyed more than one good novel that involves topics that you might have considered non-PG-13. I would also wager that the bedtime story books are on average less enjoyable than these past a certain age.)

A world where characters that one has put many hours into and grown attached to can die for good in a moment deserves that we allow those characters to be fully three-dimensional and not shackled to topics that do not exceed bedtime stories.

That is certainly not to say that all or most RP may involve adult topics, but discarding those out of hand seems to me to diminish the promise ALFA provides of immersive and true to form RP.

It's also probably fair to say that there are sufficient other mechanisms in place that would prevent an invasion of the dancing nude elves (which I take to be a concern of yours given your post; apologies if I have misinterpreted), in a similar fashion to how stealing an item out of a chest under the watchful eyes of an NPC guard would be considered an abuse of the software's mechanics system. 18+ should not be construed as carte-blanche to play for shock value instead of real RP.

Please just leave things as they are.

I think that it is worth pointing out that which several others have noted; switching to PG-13 would likely not mean to maintain the in-practice status quo.

[peterdin]

18+, with remarks that everybody is allowed to back away when not comfortable.
This just te be on the safe side.

But then I still find t very hypocrit (spelling?) that killing people, violence etc is not considered 18+ and people liking each other is!

But thats probablt just me..

[Analogkid]

so 18+ is where ALFA is heading then? Can we just move ALFA to go under social and be done with this then? Seriously this is just plain stupid. Just because the population is being winnowed down to a few who can still get their rocks off by having a certain type of fun on here does not mean we have to slam the door on those who still want to ADVENTURE!

And this is exactly why it should changed to 'mature' rather than '18+', because this uninformed reaction is what we will get.

How is it uninformed to say that people being the way they are, there are those who will think of ALFA in effect is promoting certain types of gameplay? Now that may be fine if we're cool with restricting and diminishing ourselves.

saying 18+ makes things look a certain way, and can and will provide all the justification some people may need to push those certain types of RP. Besides what other types of similar games go with an 18+ rating. The bulk either are unrated, or rated for teens

[Analogkid]

Hi there,



I think that it is a (significantly) an unfair characterization to suggest that the intent here is to slam the door shut on RP that does not involve one "getting their rocks off". I suspect that I can safely claim that nobody is seriously making such a claim.

Its the shift in focus that bothers me.

When I voted for 18+, I did so as that I believe that in a world where there are concepts and consequences as far-reaching and irreversible as involuntary permanent character death, that the rest of our RP should not be artificially stunted to paper over adult concepts.

By this logic, real life should having an 18+ rating. I know the powers that be, only have the authority to slap that rating here and not in real life but still.

Should we toss out Bane, Cyric, and Loviatar because the activities of these deities may be inappropriate for young children? I believe that this would be a loss -- the same as forbidding romance topics because these may also be inappropriate for young children. (I will wager that you, and most of us here, in all probability, have probably enjoyed more than one good novel that involves topics that you might have considered non-PG-13. I would also wager that the bedtime story books are on average less enjoyable than these past a certain age.)

I never suggested banning romance, and given that I play a Banite I would be against tossing out Bane and other evil deities. My concern is even the superficial shift in ALFA where it looks like it is promoting the hardcore cybering aspect of "romance"

A world where characters that one has put many hours into and grown attached to can die for good in a moment deserves that we allow those characters to be fully three-dimensional and not shackled to topics that do not exceed bedtime stories.

Giving ourselves an adults only rating is the only way to have a fully three dimensional character?

That is certainly not to say that all or most RP may involve adult topics, but discarding those out of hand seems to me to diminish the promise ALFA provides of immersive and true to form RP.

How exactly would keeping things as they are with a warning of unrated content, or a 13+ rating ruin the game. Unless your character enjoys performing public orgies, there should be no issue. If someone wants to "romance" another a certain way, the usual thing is to go to a private place and you can then knock your socks off, after appropriate wooing of course.

[dirsa]

But then I still find t very hypocrit (spelling?) that killing people, violence etc is not considered 18+ and people liking each other is!

welcome to modern day america...

in all seriousness - the facts are a subject to perception. and with 18+ rating, the first perception of many potential players will be that this is a place where people cyber a lot and do little else, no matter what the facts are. i think we all understand what's going on here, and if some label is needed to protect the host, by all means, let's have a label. but to have a big sign alfa 18+ only will simply turn away a lot of people.

[Burt]

We have had many, many productive members that could not have joined ALFA (when they did) if there was an enforced age limit (and how do you enforce an age limit online anyway?).

That's all I'm sayin.

[Regas]

Maybe I've missed something here, but what about the current system wasn't working? In my time as a player and DM here in ALFA I've seen, participated in and opted out of various mature content themes in role playing. I've found players and DMs to be respectful of my boundaries and at the same time, receptive to offers of clarification on what's comfortable for them. Alfa has operated for ten ? years with an inclusive rating that requires common sense and courtesy where more adult content is concerned; but, to my mind has not prevented consenting players and dms from joining in more adult themes.

If the change in rating is meant to validate player and dm rp that was up to now offending others as inappropriate and uncomfortable, then changing the rating, while it may help legitimize the offending behavior will certainly not solve the issue of differences in what's acceptable. To my mind the main consequence of a policy declaring ALFA as an adult space simply legitimizes making various adult themes from graphic violence, torture, rape and worse more prominent and public, while weakening the ability of those offended by such to protest.

I believe the age debate conflates and distracts us from the real question here--what do we want the tone of the rp in the community to be? We do need to be mindful of children who happen onto our community and owe a duty to disclose that regardless of our rating, adult themes may pop-up. We also owe a duty to all members to allow an environment where they can reasonably expect to enjoy alfa without being forced to participate in graphic themed rp.

On further reflection it seems to me that an adult themed policy, regardless of its intent will serve to validate all manner of behavior, likely by a minority of player, eroding the existing player base and reducing our appeal to new members.

If the policy needs amending, make it pg-13 in general with adult content on consent of players and dms involved. This would formalize an informal policy that's worked for ALFA since the beginning.

[fluffmonster]

Regas, this is all due to one particular incident that involved a proposal of cyb0r. Instead of dealing with the particlar incident, in fine alfa fashion it has become a debate about global rules.

I voted for 18+ primarily for graphic language and the possibility of graphic depictions of evil acts, not sexually charged interactions. Anything other than adventure interests me not at all.

[Mirabai]

Regas, this is all due to one particular incident that involved a proposal of cyb0r. Instead of dealing with the particlar incident, in fine alfa fashion it has become a debate about global rules.

Well...that's not really accurate.

For transparency's sake, it actually began as a conversation between myself and another HDM after a cyb0r-turned-Days-of-Our-Lives incident. It went something like this (paraphrased):

"Boy it sure is annoying having to mediate these silly High Schoolish soap operas"

"Yeah, it probably wouldn't even be an issue if people were actually out there playing DnD rather than SiMs... another PW I frequent will ban you if they catch you cyb0ring because of drama fallout and distraction from having adventures and crap"

"It would be nice if we could ban cyb0r and get rid of the RPXP scripts too"

"Unless we provide people with an actual environment within which they can adventure in, it's not fair to try and tell them what to be RPing...on their empty server...with the same 5 fedex statics done to death..."

And then it went to a forum discussion, where it somehow became an age label issue thing I don't know why, since the original point of the topic had nothing to do with age appropriate content and everything to do with how ALFA has turned into social servers and the subsequent repercussions of that.

What's more interesting to me than a conversation of whether this is an inappropriate response to a presumed single incident (and for the record there has been more than one) is the fact that the majority of voters have chosen the "make ALFA 18+" option, even though the conversation seems to suggest that people (at least the ones commenting) don't want to further curtail our potential member base. You do realize that making it 18+ is a much harder line than making it PG-13, right?


Making ALFA 18+ is a horrible idea.