Iran

sgould72 · Post by **sgould72** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:07 pm

We should bomb the hell out of Iran and pave a parking lot over them.

This'll shock you coming from a lefty...I tend to agree. Of course, we are so bogged down in an un-necessary conflict that bombing is really the only thing we can do right now.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:10 pm

Helios wrote:Iranian britian hostage incident = pomp and circumstance.

Ohh, that sweet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. I want to have his beard baby. He's such a nice guy for letting those sailors visit iran. It's nice that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad invited them in for apple pie and orange juice.

He did that diliberatly to hide the fact he's a total asshat. Let's all be serious. Iran will continue to use hostages as bargining tokens because they hold no true power on the gobal stage. We know that, they know that. All this friendly behavior is just B.S. on both our parts. Now, here is where I say something completely over the top as a republican just to anger liberals. . .

We should bomb the hell out of Iran and pave a parking lot over them.

LOL Burt, JINKZ!!!

Oh I'm pretty sure everyone, even other Arab leaders in the region know the guy is a total nut... and that's the real concern here. Still, the the US nor Britain has the ability or public support for a war with Iran that would double the cost of a barrel of oil.

If Iran seriously gets close to getting the bomb the country that will take it from them is Israel. Make no mistake about that.

Kate

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:58 pm

If we can't confront Iran about their B.S. what can we do about the revolutionary guard in iraq? Kill them, detain them? What distinguishes us from them, morally? Do you see the slippery slope there?

Personally, I'm glad GWB called Iran for what it is. It seems like he's the only one willing to come forward and tell it like it is. Everyone's either to afraid of offending Iran or esculating the problem in the middle east. I say, esculate it. Confront them and make them recall their revolutionary guard. (btw, the only military force competent enough to face yer average united states G.I.) If it erupts to a wild spread conflict, so BE it. Maybe it's enough to jar people out of apathy.
<rant>
Liberalism is every where in european countries and I've always wondered why.

I speculate that it's because of all their long history and the knowledge that despite the multitude of different political movements and governments people still continue to die. So instead of trying for a better future they hope to disillusion the youth in order for people to become complacent in their social inequality. . . So when someone like GBW rattles the cage, everyone becomes a knee-jerk reactionary.

A lot of liberal people also claim conservatives often say that, if you speak out against america you're against america or some stuff. Well, I dunno if that's true. Freedom of speach as always been a double-edged sword. Cuts both ways, ya know?

All I know is that it doesn't make you a patriot. Patriots love their country, they don't condemn the actions of their leader but support it. They give to the troops knowing that they need the support.

Remember they have it pretty rough out there defending the iraqi's right to live. Remember that the next time you whine about how expensive the Playstation 3 is, and the hardest decision in your life is if you're going to get one or not.

"Oh I support the troops but not the war." Let's apply that to another profession.
"I support the doctors but I don't suport healing the sick."
"I support the garbage-man but I don't support waste management."
"I support the president but I don't support the job he's doing."
"I support police officers but I don't support crime deterance."

They have a job. Their job is to kill people. Not an easy job if you ask me.
Those of you that talk big, what would you do in that situation? Ask yourselves honestly what you would do knowing that some people back home disagree strongly, if not hate, what you do. You volunteer your time knowing that you could be called to active duty. You leave your family and friends. . .
Don't try to elude to vietnam with me. It's not the same situation and doesn't apply, not by a long shot.

Again, that's just speculation on my part. I'm most likely wrongly arse-backwards. . . So feel free to comment.
</rant>

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:06 pm

Patriotism, eh? Some thoughts on it from a 'nam vet

I do have a question; given how eager you were to ask in the other thread 'so what are you doing', why aren't you in the military?

Especially given your advocacy of a wider war.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:10 pm

Liberalism is every where in european countries and I've always wondered why.

I could make a direct coorilation in regards to ALFA and our vast european player/DM numbers and the reason this projects failed over the past number of years too. ALFA=U.N. of NWN.

As for Israel...dont be mistaken. Israel is looking for any reason whats so ever to bomb the shit out of Iran. If they start getting more embolden I seriously dont see the US or Britian being the ones to first go in and deal them a massive bombardment...It will be Israel.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Patriotism, eh? Some thoughts on it from a 'nam vet

I do have a question; given how eager you were to ask in the other thread 'so what are you doing', why aren't you in the military?

Especially given your advocacy of a wider war.

People dont have to be enlisted to be patriots. You can love your country and not be on the front line fighting. Some might be too old to join, have disablities, etc. It doesnt mean they dont use their minds, their money, and their other resources to help out.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:22 pm

Absolutely right Dan. Haliburton is a great example of this.

sgould72 · Post by **sgould72** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:28 pm

Patriots love their country, they don't condemn the actions of their leader but support it.

Oh, so blind support of authority, irrespective of right or wrong is patriotism. I don't think so.

We practice representative democracy in this country. The US was founded on a lot of admirable concepts, one of which is the idea that the people are NOT obligated to blindly adhere to the whims of a distant/disconnected government. We no longer bow and say "yes, Majesty" to our leaders here when they demand things of us that we are not willing to give. And when our leaders no longer represent our interests and try to take us in directions we do not wish to go, it is our responsibility to speak out and, ultimately, remove those no longer worthy to lead us. Personally, 2008 can not come soon enough for me, because unless you aren't keeping up with current events, me and about 60% of the rest of the country are not happy with this schmuck and are quite tired of his blunders and, above all, his failure to take responsibility for anything or demand accountability from his subordinates.

All of this is quite a different matter from "supporting the troops". I think the vast majority of us, reguardless of political affiliation, realize that they are doing a brave thing over there, and deserve nothing but our respect and thanks. But I will NOT respect and thank the fool that sent them over there.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:30 pm

Im going to be quite honest with you, WW. I think Haliburton is crap. I personally dont like big business. My siding with most Republican stances deals with gay rights, abortion, not pussies when dealing with foreign policy, etc. When it comes to big businesses like Haliburton getting free reign over in Iraq I am right alongside you and the others. They are getting free rides because of Cheney. They have gotten away with bloody murder and billions of dollars because of their connections.

Its not right and I wish there was something to be done, but there isnt. They shouldnt be getting all the perks their getting because of their ties to Cheney and the republican party.

Make a Political party that supports the majority of republican tenants along with Democrats willingness to support schools, drug coverage, insurance, etc and I would willingly support them. Till then...Im not stepping back over that line. I voted Democrat once back when Clinton first went into Office. Met the man in Vandalia, IL at a fun raiser and was very impressed with his charisma (see BULLSHIT). What a laughing stock of a President he became.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:40 pm

Im not following anyone blindly. I know hes made a lot of mistakes. This war hasnt turned out like we all had hoped and our men and women are paying a terrible price for it. I am in agreement that we need to end things over there within the next few years, but I also agree we shouldnt just cut out and run now or next year. If we do we will pay an even bigger price.

Its good to question authority and no one is saying your unpatriotic for doing so, but I and others personally think its wrong to disrespect the Commander and Chief the way most people are doing nowdays. Wether y ou agree with his policies or not it doesnt give any one the right to say some of the vitrol thats spewed at President Bush ever day in newspapers, tv, and word of mouth. The man has had to lead a country from a major catastophe to where we are now and hes made blunders, but honestly feel hes doing the best he can given the restrictions he has on him...especially now with the Dems controlling the Congress.

As I said I agree the mans made mistakes. He does listen to more folks than Karl Rove, though..ya know. He has had a ton of military advisors, his own cabinet members, etc tell him their ideas and hes followed some of them. Not everything is going to work. Personally, Ive gotten tired of hearing him say "stay the course" and some of the other mantra he will say at press confrences, but the man has to be feeling worn down from all of this. Hopefully, this next year will go as smoothly as it can and we can all benefit from new leadership in the coming election. I personally think it really requires that for us to go forward as a nation.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:53 pm

mxlm wrote:Patriotism, eh? Some thoughts on it from a 'nam vet

I do have a question; given how eager you were to ask in the other thread 'so what are you doing', why aren't you in the military?

Especially given your advocacy of a wider war.

What am I doing? I'm not in teh war onna acount of my glasses! PLEASE DONT HIT ME IN TEH FACE!!!

That, "so what are you doing" doesn't really apply to this thread, but since you asked why I'm not in the military, perhaps I should answer that. In simple words, I'm a coward. However, understand the difference between cowardice and responsibilty. I can be a patriot by giving aid to the troops without actually going over there to fight. I can donate and do all I can, when I can. Which is more then what I can say to those who choose instead to undermine it. The key here is responsibility. As a patriot I have that much to offer a nation that brought some poor njub from the remote Y00per penisula and made him a well off man, yeah? It's shameful to admit it's the very least I could do for a country that I love.

If there is a wider war, I hope there better be Draft. I'm a coward but I won't shy away from responsibility. If there is a wider war, if there is a draft, if the cow jumped his ass over the moon, what would you do? In world war 2 I'm sure everyone was frightened of entering combat. People of different backgrounds and social class were drafted into war and some people handled their fears better then others.

So, if you were drafted into the conflict, what would you do? Feel free to express your opinion.

sgould72 · Post by **sgould72** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:53 pm

My siding with most Republican stances deals with gay rights, abortion, not pussies when dealing with foreign policy, etc. When it comes to big businesses like Haliburton getting free reign over in Iraq I am right alongside you and the others. They are getting free rides because of Cheney. They have gotten away with bloody murder and billions of dollars because of their connections.

Seems kind of odd to vote for someone whom you agree with on matters that only affect, what? 5% of the population, if that? While disagreeing with them on things that affect the entire nation. The whole "dems are weak on foreign policy" thing is such tired nonsense I don't even know where to start.

Im not following anyone blindly. I know hes made a lot of mistakes. This war hasnt turned out like we all had hoped and our men and women are paying a terrible price for it. I am in agreement that we need to end things over there within the next few years, but I also agree we shouldnt just cut out and run now or next year. If we do we will pay an even bigger price.

Its good to question authority and no one is saying your unpatriotic for doing so, but I and others personally think its wrong to disrespect the Commander and Chief the way most people are doing nowdays. Wether y ou agree with his policies or not it doesnt give any one the right to say some of the vitrol thats spewed at President Bush ever day in newspapers, tv, and word of mouth. The man has had to lead a country from a major catastophe to where we are now and hes made blunders, but honestly feel hes doing the best he can given the restrictions he has on him...especially now with the Dems controlling the Congress.

As I said I agree the mans made mistakes. He does listen to more folks than Karl Rove, though..ya know. He has had a ton of military advisors, his own cabinet members, etc tell him their ideas and hes followed some of them. Not everything is going to work. Personally, Ive gotten tired of hearing him say "stay the course" and some of the other mantra he will say at press confrences, but the man has to be feeling worn down from all of this. Hopefully, this next year will go as smoothly as it can and we can all benefit from new leadership in the coming election. I personally think it really requires that for us to go forward as a nation.

THAT post I can respect. I don't agree with all of it, but I'm at least glad to hear you don't let yourself get led around by a leash on everything he says.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:56 pm

Hehe Dan, you would be surprised to know i disliked Clinton when i saw him in his first Presidential Debates back in, oh hell, how long ago was that? Anyhow, it was the one with Perot. Perot had cute little one liners. Reminded me of what a granddad would be like, but i would never have voted for him. Clinton came out like one big slab of butter, ready to harden your arteries and cause a stroke.

Moving on, Dan, from this comment i just presented, i gather you can see i'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican either, mind you. I happen to know that these parties jointly own the Presidential Debate Council, and thus ensure that, between them, no other party will ever obtain power. To me, they're conspirators, tossing the hot potato back and forth, whilst name-calling and sabotaging each other at every opportunity. It's a horrible way to run things, and the root cause of this problem is the horrible Electoral system, which, unfortunately, both of these parties adore.

Anyhow, i've maintained a nuetral position for the past 22 years. Used to be a Republican, back when i was young and ignorant, hehe. Then, after getting tired of being left out of all the fun parties, i joined the Democrats. That got old when i realized 'party' didn't actually 'mean' party. Oy vey!

So, anyway, to me it's about learning the truth. I was first exposed to the truth back during the Falklands War. From then on, it's been an on & off effort for me to stay informed (thus my occasional gaps on events). Sociology, philosophy, and political studies, along with the accompanying logic courses, gave me a reason to look beyond the obvious. Getting dragged into journalism got me to realize that even what is beyond the obvious, may not be true. So, i'm stating honestly here that i am sometimes wrong about information that i opt to present, but i work hard to ensure i'm not and don't willingly believe something merely because i 'want' to believe. Would be great, even easy, but i just won't do that anymore. I can't do that anymore. Ignorance is bliss, but at a certain point, you can't stand being ignorant, and thus you are forever in the foxholes of Hell, digging, digging, digging... for answers.

But, enough about me, why are you so willing to accept what is presented to you by such unreliable, yet easy sources, when there is so much information out there far more deserving of your attention?

sgould72 · Post by **sgould72** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:58 pm

LOL...I may have bungled the quote format on that last one, but you get the idea.

HATEFACE · Post by **HATEFACE** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:00 pm

Danubus wrote: . . .As I said I agree the mans made mistakes. He does listen to more folks than Karl Rove, though..ya know. He has had a ton of military advisors, his own cabinet members, etc tell him their ideas and hes followed some of them. Not everything is going to work. Personally, Ive gotten tired of hearing him say "stay the course" and some of the other mantra he will say at press confrences, but the man has to be feeling worn down from all of this. Hopefully, this next year will go as smoothly as it can and we can all benefit from new leadership in the coming election. I personally think it really requires that for us to go forward as a nation.

Yeah mistakes were made on both sides. Most people have a memory fart and forget what the democrats said about the war post-WMDs-not-foundness.

There has to be a reason why he says stay the course. . . Isn't there? Can't just be propaganda. Usually propganda works. Maybe there is something we just don't know about. I choose to reserve judgement.

Danubus, - Rudy Guiliani 08? That's where I'm leaning.