The Shifter PrC

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
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Galadorn
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The Shifter PrC

Post by Galadorn »

I would like to propose the possibility of the Shifter PrC in ALFA. I looked around and assume it may have been mentioned earlier but couldn't find any recent ideas posted. I hope my interest may add to any unknown previous interest in this PrC. And yes of course I am currently playing a Druid and personally hope any progress with respect to this PrC someday applies to him.

If such a PrC is not chosen to be worked on or whatever. it certainly could be a possibility without heavy disapproval to possibly create interesting work-arounds to help bolster the at minimum RP of said PrC.

My suggestion includes a kind of "solution" (if and certainly when) the proposal be dumped as quick as it is suggested, and I hope a more solid and real PrC could be accepted and implemented someday without people just moving directly to a 'work-around' suggestion, but I always think it's better to provide suggestions of solutions along with proposals to show increased interest and at least the desire to help in any way.

Basically, the RP of a PC who, for all intents and purposes, will be 'defined' by Wild Shape (WS) more than any other Druidic abilities is the lowest form of this proposition. So, all other suggestions aside/or/denied, that will be the result.

If some accepted ALFA form of Shifter was decided upon, I for one, as dedicated as I am to this plan, would be 100% fine with this alternative solution:

Items given to PCs who have run the full course of requirements to be granted this PrC (of course), that upon use, transforms/polymorphs said PC into the shape of appropriate monster/draconid/humanoid/whatever based upon the original NWN1 Shifter shapes (or hopefully others as well). These items would of course only have daily uses equivalent to how many Greater Wild Shapes (GWS) the PC is allowed.

I see them being used primarily (and possibly only) for RP (at least for me) and to avoid major issues could also quite acceptably be forbidden to be used outside of OOC (for curiosity sake) or only in the presence of a DM if the Druid wished to use a Shape in combat or during an adventure.

As much as i'd love to be able to see an ALFA Druid actually choose a level of Shifter at level 6, 7, etc... and gain the actual in game use of the special ability GWS, something like the above seems quite doable, to provide in-game basically 99% of what anyone who wants a Shifter for, is looking for... that being, the appearance and size, and look, of strange/exotic/rare/huge animals/humanoids/monsters. And the ability to RP that transformation to the awe of any observer!

I would hope the Shapes would be rethought, and if my proposal above was accepted in some form, perhaps each Shifter could be tailor fit to the PC... as in, Shapes that are accepted could be matched to the character development of the PC him/herself based upon who the PC worships most of all of course, etc. since each Shape-item would need to be made individually in the toolset anyway, so each form could be chosen based upon what the desired ploymorph would produce.

For example, my PC worships Grumbar, an Earth God, so anything that flies would be totally inappropriate. But, Earth Elemental, or Earth dwelling creatures would fit perfectly, when the time comes, the form might be "Umber Hulk" or "Bullette", or whatever is accepted/approved.

To recap, here are some possibilities from worst to best:

1) Not at all

2) RP only (no new shapes at all - must use current Druid engine shapechange shapes only)

3) Shape-Items! (DM presence required - restricted to RP only)

4) Shape-Items! (DM presence required for use outside of RP)

5) Shape-Items! full use anywhere anytime

6) New PrC Class "Shifter" created and able to be chosen upon level up after PrC approval, etc

Always open to further suggestions!

Always happy to see positive feedback that eventually helps get this PrC a shot! :)

Thank you for reading!
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Swift
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Swift »

Not that this will have any bearing, but I could totally see myself playing something like this at some point in my ALFA life.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Blindhamsterman »

it's certainly a fun one to consider adding, just need to finish up working out whats going on with batch one first (haven't even begun discussion of loremaster, and Runecaster was requested by Curm to replace Divine seeker)
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Galadorn
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Galadorn »

Hey that's 2 replies without any:

"PFFT Shift who? shift YOU Galadr0n."

...so far... so good. To be honest thinking there wouldn't be dozens of them running around, it could make for a very cool personalised PC development with all the possible Shapes that might/could/would be accustomed to individual Druids based upon the varied faiths, dieties, etc, that so many different Druids would be following...

WOW!~ great idea!!
Oops...it was mine. Right.



...of course my ol'pal Veilan ain't chimed in yet, looking forward tothat one! :P
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by t-ice »

Just to note that over at Exodus side we have, to some success, used a shape-item to create a werewolf. Lack of more success has been due to the player in question apparently dropping out :(

So precedent for a technically working forms-system is there. The shapechange item gives natural weapons, stat bonuses and DR appropriately for a lycanthrope. The difference is that lycanthrope gains bonuses upon char stats, whereas a shapeshifter should replace stats with the taken form's.

I am not fully aware of the mechanics of how the change item works, how stable it is, or how well it is balanced. It was not under my DMing that it was taken up. I suppose I could find out, though, and perhaps people reading this know already and can enlighten us?

So, technically, giving a shift-capable PC ability on some particular form outside of the on-engine druid forms seems possible. Implementation of anything related to Master of Many Forms, i.e. one that has a zoology of forms, is likely a monstrous undertaking (pun intended).

Questions remain how to balance the abilities of the new forms so that it's not powerup candy doled out by DMs, what are the requirements, and what must be given up in return. It seems it all comes around to the safe side of using this ability only for "Oooh, look at my cute/awesome/disgusting furry/elemental/monstrous trick!". While I'm sure it would be cool and beans the first couple times, it quickly becomes old and not worth the significant effort to create it. It would be worthwhile as "rp trick only" if a DM decided to connected the shifting to a plotline in which the shifter would be central. Then it's a matter of the DM picking it up, though.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Blindhamsterman »

Galadorn, any chance you could elaborate on the class? What are the requirements, and full list of abilities gained etc? Does it get spellcasting? and can it cast while in other forms?

(i honestly know next to nothing about the shifter)
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dergon darkhelm
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by dergon darkhelm »

This is NWN1 but gives a background for perusal:

http://nwn.bioware.com/underdark/prestige_shifter.html
PCs: NWN1: Trailyn "Wayfarer" Krast, Nashkel hayseed

NWN2: ??

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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by blacksheep_44 »

The shifter class was my favorite class in nwn! Seeing it added would be amazing ^_^
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Castano
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Castano »

I think it would be great to add this in given the number of Druid PCs I am seeing

I count at least 4 on MS right now. There are probably more.

I'd like to see it full on, if possible...of course it would be super rare and would have to be worked on from early on in the PC's career.

That said, I would support it for RP-only purposes too.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Blindhamsterman »

...of course it would be super rare and would have to be worked on from early on in the PC's career.
This should be the case with all PRCs anyway.

Must admit, I'm rather impressed at how much support this class is receiving!
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Galadorn
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Galadorn »

Castano wrote:I think it would be great to add this in given the number of Druid PCs I am seeing

I count at least 4 on MS right now. There are probably more.

I'd like to see it full on, if possible...of course it would be super rare and would have to be worked on from early on in the PC's career.

That said, I would support it for RP-only purposes too.
I agree with super rare. FYI, my PC was born to be a Shifter. :) And RP'd such from roll up. But again, the support is great to see.
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by kmj2587 »

The Shifter is from Masters of the Wild, page 68.

The basic requirements are the ability to cast 3rd level spells, and the feats Endurance and Alertness, in addition to the shapeshifting requirement.

The PnP version of the class is also available to any spellcaster capable of casting Alter Self, Polymorph Self, or Shapechange. While the class retains an obvious druidic bent in terms of its class skills, it would also be available to interested arcane spellcasters.
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Galadorn
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Galadorn »

Never knew Masters of the Wild called for Endurance. My Druid has had Toughness from Day-1. Great minds think alike? haha, maybe not.

Well, NWN1 Shifter PrC is actually what I would think is the best model to copy for ALFA being NWN2. It had only Alertness as the feat requirement. And the ability to shapechange... (so, since Druids were the only class that got "natural" shapechange, then specifically only Druids were able/allowed to become Shifters...in NWN1).

I have heard in several places that Alertness Feat does not work in NWN2. Pretty bummer of a requirement then I would say.

Since Alertness feat is only +2 Spot and +2 Listen, I was hoping (as a suggestion) since Alertness is broken(?) that perhaps a Rank requirement in Spot and Listen skills might effectively replace that Feat requirement for the PrC eventually... i know many quite powerful PrCs out there require only rank requirements in skills as prerequisites - so why not our version of Shifter? ....considering it's possible re-invention will almost surely be less powerful than any official version created previously...

Again, just suggestions. I'm truly up for anything with the RP version of the PrC being my main and all-emcompassing drive towards this end. If you think I am trying to get the ability to shapechange into an Xorn to be able to PG ogres faster, than you know more than I do about me. :)

I just wanna freak people out IC is all.... really... :idea:
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Audark »

I can't say for certain, but I would say that standards getting ahold of this would insist on at least one feat being spent as a requirement for the PrC. Just a +2 in each spot and listen is not a 'cost' because most likely a druid would put points into this anyways.

Anyways I won't ramble too long on balance there, others will do so at length.

Just know that if you proceed with this recommendation it may drag out over a significant period of time leading to significant frustration on your part. ALFA does not change easily, nor does it even add things easily, and there are many roadblocks to adding something like a PrC. I do not ever say don't try, I love new interesting content, I just say, know what you're getting into, keep a level head, and do not despair at setbacks. I've seen too many folk get frustrated trying to add their pet project, get discouraged and leave.
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Re: The Shifter PrC

Post by Brokenbone »

Shifter's from 3.0 (and NWN1 was supposed to be D&D 3.0, ALFA's NWN1 was a bit of a hybrid between 3.0 and 3.5). Masters of the Wild was a 3.0 book.

Master of Many Forms is from 3.5, Complete Adventurer sourcebook covers it at page 58, indicating it's definitely an updated version of what was found as the Shifter class in Masters of the Wild.

Kaedrin's PRC pack seems to have some half-cooked ideas on the MoMF (http://nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/momf) but beats me whether it's just ideas or if any "draft" of the PrC is put together. *shrugs*

I don't think Shifters ever proliferated in NWN1 despite their being available "out of the box", I doubt that there's a floodgate of Shifters (or Masters of Many Forms) all pent up if this was "invented from scratch then implemented" in NWN2 either. It seems awfully labour intensive though, it's one thing to have a PrC with a bunch of abilities that sometimes resemble existing feats, may be a whole other ball of wax to have a ton of options all available via radials or something, work around issues like land speed variations "sticking" to frequent polymorphers, maybe other technical hurdles as well. Again, just wondering out loud how much technical heavy lifting required, especially if there isn't something "out there" already to sort of check out for adaptation, and also since there's nothing cooked into the game already which isn't simply being modified (like if there was a turned-off PrC being turned-on with changes, like if this was an NWN1 "unbanning" of some PrC).
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